Silver Wing

I would like to suggest that the Debate/Discussion Forum be renamed as just the discussion forum.

Debate implies an adversarial format, in which people with opposing viewpoints clash. To debate is to disagree, sometimes strenuously.

Discussion, on the other hand, is where people may have opposing viewpoints, but there is no adversary. No one "argues" per se, they simply state their opinion, someone else states their opinion, and so on and so on. Everyone agrees to disagree and then we all go have some yummy s'mores. Nothing is proven or disproven, and there is no discourse, just a littany of what everyone believes.

We don't have a "debate" forum, because everytime any adversarial modes are entered upon, those posts are deleted or the thread is locked until "everyone can cool down." That's not the point of a "debate"... the point is to have and defend a viewpoint. If someone says something stupid or pompous or presumptuous, if someone wants to spout opinion as fact or hold far-out views that aren't grounded in reality, then in a "debate" those people should be called out for it. In a discussion, we all just nod politely and go about our business.

Any time people begin to actually disagree with each other, it's viewed as flaming and the whole thing gets shut down. If we were pointlessly attacking each other, if we were getting personal or going off-topic, then I would agree... but we're not. We're having the temerity to disagree, to openly discuss things and to force people to defend what they believe, and in the process sharpen and clarify their own views. That is the point of a debate, your opinions are going to be attacked, and you're going to have to take a hard look at them through the lense of the other person. But it seems like we don't actually want that here.

So, I say let's just remove that pesky "debate" title from the forum and have ourselves some nice big feel good discussions?

b00bles

I second this motion.

Or can it be renamed "If you agree, you can post here."

TheLady

I disagree. The election thread, which I assume is what spawned this thread, had several posts that were outright flaming deleted. I do not think that the term "debate" implies being rude to those who choose to participate. There are ways to be forceful and not stoop to name-calling and insult.

There are plenty of ways to DEBATE without being nasty or snarky. Most of that thread has been intelligent debate. I understand people are debating topics they are passionate about, but when you start hurling insults at eachother, the message gets lots. Telling people to "STFU already" really isn't debating, is it?

People were wrong on BOTH sides. And rather than let the thread continue into personal attacks, I felt it best to delete the personal attacks and get back on topic.

Shivercide

If by "everytime" you mean "once every 6 months or more," then yeah, sure. Every time.

Otherwise I'm not sure I get it. When was the last time you can say a debate thread was closed down to cool off? When was the last time you've noticed a debate post being deleted? Aside from today, I mean. And such posts that only say something like "I agree" or "This isn't a debate!" or a random picture post without any substance don't count, although it's been quite awhile since any of those have been deleted as well.

If this bugs you so much now you would have really hated it back in the old days when a lot of threads (decent debates included) tended to be locked for no real reason.

So I'm not sure I understand what you mean by every time. It seems like ANY time a post is deleted or a thread closed, someone acts like it's something that's done all the time. Like now. Case in point.

Jane

Obviously. No one would dispute that.

No it isn't, and is a classic example of being rude. Of the posts you deleted, only two people engaged in those kinds of insults: Princess Mary (largely) and Silver Wing. We all know Silver Wing has the tendency to lose his cool with people in the debate threads. We get it. His post was rude and flaming. However, of the rest of us that were posting in response to Princess Mary, we were really just trying to explain to her how she was coming across and SHE was choosing to get angry instead of listen to what we were saying.

fearlesst15 especially went out of her way to explain things to her. Tara wasn't being rude AT ALL, she was trying to let her know that she needs to change the way she's posting if she doesn't want to get these same comments. Much of her posts were quality posts and all Princess Mary chose to do was insult her and get angry.

You had ONE consistently un-rowdy member of that thread (as it stood). Subsequent posts (Silver Wing's aside... sure you could've deleted his, or edited it to leave in his comment about tending your neighbor's garden) were trying to mitigate the behavior and point out to Princess Mary what we were getting from her posts.

How about next time a mod actually ADDRESS the problem instead of just deleting everything? CRAZY IDEA, I KNOW.

I think it was just a figurative way of his saying that it's becoming frustrating.

TheLady

I have a suggestion. How about every time a mod makes a decision that she feels is in the best interest of the board, it DOESN'T turn into a debate about whether the mod's actions were right or wrong.

Fact. The thread was going offtopic and was becoming about Princess Mary and her posting. That is not what the thread was about, so all offtopic posts were deleted. There is no other way to explain it, and I shouldn't HAVE TO explain it.

Everyone said their piece, and it was time to end. Princess Mary read everyone's criticism, and responded.In the past, mods have said "please move on", and the posts were left up for everyone to see and people disregarded the mods instructions and continued the topic. So, deleting the posts makes sure there is no more quoting, and that no one is going to back to those posts in a months and get all upset again.

Get over it. Seriously.

Jane

I have a suggestion too. How about when there are members with concerns about the board, the mods actually listen to our complaint. Your comment strikes me as though the staff is not open to any suggestion from someone outside of your circle, because we couldn't POSSIBLY know what's best for this place.

Not entirely true. I don't really remember all of Tara's posts off hand, but I know that I specifically made a point of tying my post back into the election. I spent a good portion of that post actually asking Princess Mary questions on the election that would've helped her defend herself and would've lended her opinions some credibility, something well within the realms of debating.

The reason that this whole thing is being brought up is because it's something that isn't working and has been leaving some of us older members with a bad taste in our mouths. What you guys are doing ISN'T WORKING.

CASE AND POINT.

TheLady

This same old debate is tiring. Since Day 1 of Evboard members have complained to and about the mods and the decisions they make. The mods are accused of being too harsh or mean and the members accuse the mods of driving people away.

Jane, you seem to want to debate and argue about everything all the time. I do not understand your constant need to turn everything into an argument. A decision was made. You don't agree with my decision. I got it. And I got it. And I got it. Both in this thread and via PMs. And I got it.

I am not going to undelete the posts. In the future, maybe everyone will learn to play nice and not hurl insults. But until that time comes, any posts where flaming occurs will be deleted, along with any posts quoting, referencing, or responding to the flaming.