Can we avoid pain by simply thinking straight? Can we stop ourselves from thinking "Ouch, man that hurt" ? Is it mind over matter?

For example could you cut yourself and just think "okay this doesnt hurt" and forget about it. Or, if we are hurt emotionally, can we just pick ourselves up and forget about it.

I think that we cant do it as easily for emotional problems but we can for physical pain, like a cut or bruise. Like that saying "Stciks and stones may break my bones......."

i was just wondering what you guys thought?.....

hm, the process of feeling physical pain has some sort of "higher priority" than our own conciousness. in the normal state of mind you can hardly "think" the pain away. but there are possible states, either through physical influence like shock, drugs etc or spiritual like meditation, where you feel your body and therefore pain in a different way.

I know some people probably couldn't understand where I'm coming from, but I feel like I recently had an emotional epiphany of sorts that allows me to truly shut off all emotions that I would prefer not to feel. I just ask myself objectively if an emotion is doing me any good in furthering my short or long term goals, (goals that have a reasonable, functional purpose) and if it isn't... then I can just make it go away. I've concentrated on physical pain like that before and I feel like I can definitely make it less intense, but making it completely go away never really happened

I don't think you can simply wish away physical hurt-because it's their on your flesh and you have nothing to appease the pain really, I mean, to make it completely go away straight away by thinking it. But emotionally and mentally, I think some people have a case where they siort of make themselves numb to everything, they block themselves from having emotion and from getting hurt, so they don't feel anything...like a sort of defensive wall. Not sure if it works, though.

Ive seen my toddler nephew trip and fall a couple of times, and what seems to happen is he lifts his head off the ground, looks at everyone, and tries to tell if he should be crying or not. I think that everyone regardless of age does that.

If you smash your toe doesnt it hurt more if you respond with a loud and quite graphic stream of profanity, rather than shrugging your shoulders and saying "that sucks". Just my personal experience.
Sadness can be ampified by listening to sad stories, Happyness can be amplified by laughter, so cant pain be amplified by concentrating on it?

As far as physical, I think it is possible through focus and concentration.

BUT pain is an indicator that what ever you're doing, Stop it! So if that is blocked, you could do severe damage to yourself. You may not feel it, but that doesnt mean it can't f*ck you up.

I suppose physically pain could be ignored. However I think emotional pain is harder to ignore.

At least when my 16 year old best friend died 7 months ago, I couldnt just ignore the blinding, numbing pain that consumed me and pushed me into a pit of depression.

But ya know, different strokes for different folks. -shrug-

I think without pain, we would be dead. Sure, it hurts and all, but isn't that what makes living SOO much fun? If you can't hurt, you can't feel good either.

deb

I suppose physically pain could be ignored. However I think emotional pain is harder to ignore.

At least when my 16 year old best friend died 7 months ago, I couldnt just ignore the blinding, numbing pain that consumed me and pushed me into a pit of depression.

But ya know, different strokes for different folks. -shrug-

sorry to hear about that... i totally agree that emotional pain is a lot harder to ignore.

Pain is completely physical. It's the nerves in the skin that detect it, and the mind has no control over what they detect. You could force yourself to stand pain, but I don't think you can ever train yourself to not feel it. Not unless somehow those nerves were modified in some way, which as far as I know is impossible.

Thanks. Also, I think physical pain goes away faster and it's treatable. Vicodin is my friend. :D

Can we avoid pain by simply thinking straight? Can we stop ourselves from thinking "Ouch, man that hurt" ? Is it mind over matter?

For example could you cut yourself and just think "okay this doesnt hurt" and forget about it. Or, if we are hurt emotionally, can we just pick ourselves up and forget about it.

I think that we cant do it as easily for emotional problems but we can for physical pain, like a cut or bruise. Like that saying "Stciks and stones may break my bones......."

i was just wondering what you guys thought?.....

physical pain you get over quickly...if you stub your toe it hurts for a moment and then goes almost as quickly as it occured

emotional pain is different....see my signature for my favourite quote right now....emotional pain sometimes goes to deep to recover from, sometimes people can hide the pain they feel inside and some people wear their heart on their sleeve

i dont think simply saying 'sticks and stones' makes the pain go away, you can put on a brave face and hope that it will go away but sometimes it will build up until it explodes

Hmmm i know a girl who didnt feel pain at back .. if i touched her back with pencil or needle .. she didnt feel it ...it means she dosent have nerves at her back ...
But if we got nerves .. then ofcourse we cant avoid the pain ( psyhical one)

Your mind doesn't control your pain.. Your nerves and sensories do. I've tryed this, and I couldn't make it go away. Sure, you can not think about it and it will be a little eased, but you can't make it completely go away. Those are two different organ systems, and they are not made to interact, except for the power of the brain controlling the nerves, which control you pain. You can't merely "think" pain away.. It isn't going to happen. You can't think about your arm moving and it will do it will you? Then you can't think away your pain :P

(Btw this is for you people who aren't like those telekenetic people.. lol)

Amanda

Your mind doesn't control your pain.. Your nerves and sensories do. I've tryed this, and I couldn't make it go away. Sure, you can not think about it and it will be a little eased, but you can't make it completely go away. Those are two different organ systems, and they are not made to interact, except for the power of the brain controlling the nerves, which control you pain. You can't merely "think" pain away.. It isn't going to happen. You can't think about your arm moving and it will do it will you? Then you can't think away your pain :P

(Btw this is for you people who aren't like those telekenetic people.. lol)

Amanda


Those karate people can..there's a whole bunch of them that do that somewhere, I read an article about it. Like they meditate and then they can sub consciously convince themselves not to feel it. And from what I was taught about the nerves I think it could be done. The nerves act as messengers and when you feel pain something is happening to your body that is bad and your nerves are trying to get your attention. Like if you had your hand on a hot stove..your nerves say, wtf are you doing asshole that's going to make your skin burn so then you get your hand off of the stove. So if you can turn off those signals you won't feel pain but your body will still be damaged. mmmhm. :p :)

I don't know if one can ever control pain of any sort with their mind, but I'm leaning towards the belief that the mind does have more to do with the pain we feel rather than nerve endings.

Sometimes I get flashbacks/nightmares of the past, and when I awaken or come out of it, I will hurt in certain ways and certain places like what happened in the actual experience. Like having a dream (flashback) of my elbow being dislocated. The pain of it will stick with me, and seem just as real as if it happened that moment, when it really didn't.

Also, if someone is badly injured (like losing a limb), most of the time they will go into such shock at the injury that it might not hurt at all. And sometimes physical wounds don't hurt as much as they do after you look at it.

So I believe it's some of both, the nerve endings of course register pain to the mind...but I think that the mind has more to do with it overall, and the mind is such a powerful thing - I don't see how we could fully control the knowledge of being in pain any more than we can control our own subconscious.

Not saying it could never happen, though.

By the way, feeling pain is an instinctive survival tactic.

Can we avoid pain by simply thinking straight? Can we stop ourselves from thinking "Ouch, man that hurt" ? Is it mind over matter?

I don't know, let's find out.

*sets you on fire*

Someone gave me a negative rep point because they disagreed with me saying that pain is physical... why? :(

Isn't that against the rules anyway? Meh.

I saw a clip on "Ripleys believe it or not" last night about a guy who ate all kinds of junk like glass, metal shards, screws, nails etc. He was somehow able to overcome the pain, and also keep his insides from getting ripped to shreads. According to his physician though, he had developed alot of scar tissue in his gut. The physician recommends that he stop eating sharp stuff, but he doesn't seem to care.

About two years ago, I herniated a cervical disc in my neck. It hurt like hell. I was on alot of pain medicine for several weeks, but it started to affect my mental state. I was becoming addicted. I stopped taking the drugs and learned to deal with the pain conservatively. I think that doing that helped me to recover faster because I was not masking the pain with drugs. I learned what motions put strain on my neck, and I developed mechanisms to cope with the pain as well as prevent it. Pain occurs for a reason, it tells your mind that something is wrong with your body. I do think it is possible to avoid pain by listening to what it is telling you about your body. I still have a little bit of pain in my neck, but I am able to tolerate it. I would rather deal with a little bit of pain than have surgery that may or may not fix the problem.

So yes, I think it is possible to control pysical pain. Emotional pain is similar. you can't let it control you.

So yes, I think it is possible to control pysical pain. Emotional pain is similar. you can't let it control you.

Fine.

*sets you on fire, too*

There. You're actually ON FIRE. You're burning.

Can you tell yourself it doesn't hurt?

Fine.

*sets you on fire, too*

There. You're actually ON FIRE. You're burning.

Can you tell yourself it doesn't hurt?

Those cool chinese karate people can. :p :D

Fine.

*sets you on fire, too*

There. You're actually ON FIRE. You're burning.

Can you tell yourself it doesn't hurt?


I think you are over-exaggerating the point. Yes physical pain can be controlled. Many martial artists have this ability. But no, I doubt there is anyone who could be literally set on fire and deny the pain.

*remembers scene from Monty Python's The Search for the Holy Grail*

Arthur - "Your arms off!!
Black Night- "No it's not. It's just a flesh wound." :cool:

I think you are over-exaggerating the point. Yes physical pain can be controlled. Many martial artists have this ability. But no, I doubt there is anyone who could be literally set on fire and deny the pain.

*remembers scene from Monty Python's The Search for the Holy Grail*

Arthur - "Your arms off!!
Black Night- "No it's not. It's just a flesh wound." :cool:

No, my example was extreme, granted. But it still falls under the category of "things that cause pain." So it counts. :p

No, my example was extreme, granted. But it still falls under the category of "things that cause pain." So it counts. :p

smrat ass!!

*cuts syds arm off* - It's only a flesh wound.
:cool:

smrat ass!!

*cuts syds arm off* - It's only a flesh wound.
:cool:

I wasn't the one who thought it wouldn't hurt. :p

You cut my arm off, I will track you down and beat you with it.

It is funny though... according to stories, when soldiers survive an explosion they apparently check to make sure all there limbs are still there. simply because having a limb cut off doesn't hurt if you aren't aware of it.

I can tell you from personal experience... when my leg got completely fuckarooed in a bike crash, it didn't hurt a bit, until I saw it. Only then did it registed how much pain I should have been in - so it started hurting. (an awful lot, as it goes ;) )

What can be drawn from that? Physical pain isn't necessarily related to physical trauma. However I'm still not convinced such pain can be controlled mentally - or if it can, it'd have to be some WAAAY cool chinese kung-fu mo'-fo'.

But crucially - remind me why we care about this again?

But crucially - remind me why we care about this again?

Because if we can learn to control pain, we can teach kids to stop bieng so emo.
:cool:

Once I had a sinus headache that felt so excruciating that I had something of an out-of-body experience. The pain remained, but I had left--my consciousness was breaking away from my physical sensations. I later found out that what happened to me happens to people taking yoga getting into the lotus position--you feel so uncomfortable that the mind somehow breaks away from that feeling, and then you reach an altered state.

So you can sometimes avoid pain by leaving it.

Those cool chinese karate people can. :p :D Hmmm I'm not 100% sure about them...but funny you should mention that.

Back in the Viet Nam war, Buddists would protest anti-Buddhist governmental policies by...you guessed it...setting themselves on fire. They would sit on a sidewalk somewhere and light themselves on fire while meditating of course and not make a move or a sound and just sit there and burn to death.

I found a picture if you'd like to see it. If you don't then just scroll down really really fast while squinting. You might miss it. :D

http://bdiddy.50free.net/fire5e2.jpg
It must happen a lot, look at the cop looking for his cigarette lighter. hahaha

I think that we cant do it as easily for emotional problems but we can for physical pain, like a cut or bruise.

k, I just stubbed my toe on the back door, and there is NO WAY that's gonna be possible


oowwwwwwwwwww My toe :(

I think a better question to this debate would be why physically injuring yourself is considered pain, yet being emotionally scarred isn't.

...pain is a perception, not really a sensation, in the same way that vision and hearing are. It involves sensitivity to chemical changes in the tissues and then interpretation that such changes are harmful. This perception is real, whether or not harm has occurred or is occurring. Cognition is involved in the formulation of this perception. There are emotional consequences, and behavioral responses to the cognitive and emotional aspects of pain.

Personally I've always believed that it was more of a warning for you, as in if you are hurting yourself, certain stimuli are then sent to your brain where it then sends emotional signals back, in order to protect yourself. Meaning the actual pain is nothing more then a sensory, that if found, could be turned off.

Hasn't anyone ever seen the Maury Povich show where he has the 10 year old girl that literally eats her tongue, has chewed off majority of one of her thumbs, all because she could not feel any actual pain? To me, that says right there that physical pain is not real, it's just a perception.

I think a better question to this debate would be why physically injuring yourself is considered pain, yet being emotionally scarred isn't.

Personally I've always believed that it was more of a warning for you, as in if you are hurting yourself, certain stimuli are then sent to your brain where it then sends emotional signals back, in order to protect yourself. Meaning the actual pain is nothing more then a sensory, that if found, could be turned off.

Hasn't anyone ever seen the Maury Povich show where he has the 10 year old girl that literally eats her tongue, has chewed off majority of one of her thumbs, all because she could not feel any actual pain? To me, that says right there that physical pain is not real, it's just a perception.That's what I believe, that pain is just a sensory, a survival tactic to warn us when our body is being harmed.

But what is this sensor? Is it in the mind, or is it the nerves in our skin? Does it matter? Nerves may just be used as a conductor for the signal of pain from the mind.

If someone is paralyzed from the waist down, the link (I guess this being the spinal cord) between their mind and the nerves from the waist down will have been severed, and so they won't feel pain there - or have any feeling at all. The mind won't be able to send the message to the nerves that they are taking any pain. The mind does not only allow us to feel physical pain; it is what also allows us to have any physical feeling at all. If this sensor could somehow be shut off, then perhaps it would also at the same time shut off every other physical feeling, as well?

I'm not sure about emotional pain, though. If physical pain is a sensory that can be turned off, then shouldn't emotional pain be, too? Emotional pain can hurt way more than physical pain, though, and last a lot longer. If it follows the same lines as physical pain (assuming that physical pain is all in the mind), then I think it would be a lot harder to control than pain of the body.

I dunno, though...it's a tricky subject.

i believe that physical pain is mind over matter, although emotional pain i find is diffrent. although i wouldnt choose to live with out emotional pain, the reason being i believe that without pain no one would know the true meaning of love. kind of a yin yang type of thing (there cant be good without evil and no evil without some kind of good) idk maybe im crazy

If someone is paralyzed from the waist down, the link (I guess this being the spinal cord) between their mind and the nerves from the waist down will have been severed, and so they won't feel pain there - or have any feeling at all. The mind won't be able to send the message to the nerves that they are taking any pain.

Yeah, that's true. I have a really good friend who has been in a wheelchair for half her life. She was paralyzed from the chest down in a car wreck years ago. I've seen her accidentally spill boiling water on her legs, and she was just like "I bet that would've hurt."

hmm i dont know, commin form someon who does not feel pain i dont know i do but not much its weird if i wanted too i could but i dont and i just dont.. i have talked to my doctor about it and he thinks it could be something medical he said some big named medical term so i dont know.. but i wonder the same as you...

can you completely cut pain out of your life?
nope.

can you cut most of it out of your life?
yep, thats called not living.


as sick as this sounds, pain lets us know we are alive.
often times, when we feel pain, its from losing something we tried for, and didnt get.

pain is like fear.
they say if you have nothing to fear you have nothing to live for.
the same goes for pain, if you havent felt pain then you have never lived.

Ever see the Shao Lin Monks? I think its a mind over matter issue. If you have the mental discipline, you can control and conquer it. It takes gobs of discipline though, from what I understand about it. I have also read that women have a higher threshold of pain, probably because they need it more than us sperm-boys LOL. They have to continue the race, so nature has made them like that. Evolution in action indeed.

AndY

Ok so as a practicing Buddhist let me try to clear up any mis-conceptions about people meditating and appearing to not experience any physical pain.

Correct meditation is a highly aware, concentrated state of mind that is focused on an object that has been created by the mind for meditation. When the monks in Nam lit themselves on fire, they didn't sit down and think, 'ok, im going to block out the pain when it comes.' Instead, they entered into a deep meditative state where the vital signs/sensory consciousnesses start to shut down. Recent medical studies have been able to replicate experiments where a monk's physical body signs indicate states of high concentration while distracting noises and such are imposed on the monk. The reason that their concentration did not break was because of their focus on the object that their mind had created(usually, an image of Buddha), not because they blocked out distractions as they came. So for the people who lit themselves on fire, they managed to remain in an upright posture and appear to not experience any pain not because they were thinking about not feeling pain, but because they were focused elsewhere.

This reminds me of semething that the Dalai Lama said. If there's no cause for emotional pain in your life, then what's the point of trying to avoid it? If there are no causal relationships between your actions and the reality that you experience, then why bother being ethically clean?



PS. Generally speaking, with all cases where people seem to be enduring extreme physical pain, there always seems to be an element of mind over matter. Except, of course, when the person has been disabled(spinal injury comes to mind). I've heard people who have been doing martial arts for many many years talk about how at the highest levels of combat, the mind becomes more important than physical things such as technique and physical pain. But then again, I don't do martial arts. So I could be wrong.

Ok so as a practicing Buddhist let me try to clear up any mis-conceptions about people meditating and appearing to not experience any physical pain.

Correct meditation is a highly aware, concentrated state of mind that is focused on an object that has been created by the mind for meditation. When the monks in Nam lit themselves on fire, they didn't sit down and think, 'ok, im going to block out the pain when it comes.' Instead, they entered into a deep meditative state where the vital signs/sensory consciousnesses start to shut down. Recent medical studies have been able to replicate experiments where a monk's physical body signs indicate states of high concentration while distracting noises and such are imposed on the monk. The reason that their concentration did not break was because of their focus on the object that their mind had created(usually, an image of Buddha), not because they blocked out distractions as they came. So for the people who lit themselves on fire, they managed to remain in an upright posture and appear to not experience any pain not because they were thinking about not feeling pain, but because they were focused elsewhere.

This reminds me of semething that the Dalai Lama said. If there's no cause for emotional pain in your life, then what's the point of trying to avoid it? If there are no causal relationships between your actions and the reality that you experience, then why bother being ethically clean?



PS. Generally speaking, with all cases where people seem to be enduring extreme physical pain, there always seems to be an element of mind over matter. Except, of course, when the person has been disabled(spinal injury comes to mind). I've heard people who have been doing martial arts for many many years talk about how at the highest levels of combat, the mind becomes more important than physical things such as technique and physical pain. But then again, I don't do martial arts. So I could be wrong.


In the "Zone" El_Cid. . anything is possible. I've come out of full-contact sparring matches bloody, and never felt it till the next day. (and BOY do you feel it the next day)

Well... i think of pain normally as a scientific/physical thing- so in terms of that, i think it is preventable, but not forever. I mean, i know hospital and surgery patients have epidurals, etc. that block pain senses (i dunno how the entire math goes, but I think they block signals to the brain from your touch sensors).

Emotionally... I think you might become immune to certain uh...bad stuff. I mean, when little kids are called stupid, they defend themselves "I am NOT i am NOT!!!" etc etc. Or that may be a maturity thing. Now, if Im called stupid- I dont care. That might be maturity, or...'immunity'.

When something hurts me, I imagine the pain being something physical i can SEE, and everytime I focus in on it, the pain increases- but if I look past it, it lessens, eventually until I am staring, unblinking, and i've completely 'negated' the pain.
IE:
I step on a nail/tack (it just stabs me, doesnt stick in me), and OWCH, and I sit, and just focus on something else. It works, if i can keep up the concentrating on something else.

If I get hurt in a sport or activity, i dont let it bother me because Im focused on winning or completing the activity. Once, as a kid, I was following someone along a narrow wall made of red bricks, and I slipped, and gashed my knee, but I kept walkin, trying to complete what i was doing. My mom forced me to come inside. =o I couldnt play anymore.

you need a balance of everything in our lives to make us human, and give us the chance to deal with it. :)

In the "Zone" El_Cid. . anything is possible. I've come out of full-contact sparring matches bloody, and never felt it till the next day. (and BOY do you feel it the next day)
Much like paintball, when I was shot in the neck (happened three times to date) I didn't feel a damn thing, but it did look pretty nasty and hurt later. I've seen tons of shows of martial arts guys getting kicked so hard in the nuts their feet lift off the ground. This is a fighting ability, when you become so focused on defeating the person (s) you're against, you can't feel when they hit you most of the time. Good example, A clerk was stabbed 27 times, he even had the knife in his back, and he didn't even know until someone told him. I think once some nerves take a lot of pain like that they just shut down. Like getting tattoos. :D

Can we avoid pain? The better question is, why on earth would we want to?

<3 Mary

I think we could avoid pain if we wanted to, but then all our lives would be incredibly empty. It all depends on your attitude and the way you handle things. Like Abe Lincoln said, "People are only as happy as they want to be."

To be honest with you i wish you couldnt feel pain but what happens, happens for a reason. I mean if you couldnt feel pain you wouldnt have the pleasure to go with it. Emotional pain, its better to get that then you know what it feels like and your ready to face it again. If we didnt have all these things your mentioning about, life wouldnt be life. I am trying to make sense in what i am saying but i dont think iam. Oh well waiting for a person to tell me otherwise Basically no you cant avoid pain no matter who you are. Everyone and i mean everyone goes through some sort of hurt in there lives. You would need to balance out anyway or you wouldnt be human if you tried to avoid hurt, pain, emotional stress, anxiety, depression. These things are bad but then in a way there good. It shows you how important life is and believe me i know.

I think a better question to this debate would be why physically injuring yourself is considered pain, yet being emotionally scarred isn't.
Because when you physically injure yourself, your nervous system reacts to indicate pain. It's all bound up with chemicals and receptors.

Personally I've always believed that it was more of a warning for you, as in if you are hurting yourself, certain stimuli are then sent to your brain where it then sends emotional signals back, in order to protect yourself. Meaning the actual pain is nothing more then a sensory, that if found, could be turned off.
Yes, it can be "turned off." What do you think morphine does? However, we have yet to find a pain reliever with enough of a margin of safety to completely turn off pain, mostly because medications have terrible side effects in large doses, and the main desired effects (pain relief) never completely shut off the brain's signaling mechanisms.

Hasn't anyone ever seen the Maury Povich show where he has the 10 year old girl that literally eats her tongue, has chewed off majority of one of her thumbs, all because she could not feel any actual pain? To me, that says right there that physical pain is not real, it's just a perception.
Gotta love Maury. What do you mean by "just a perception"? To me all this means is that this little girl has a problem with the signalling mechanism in her nervous system. Pain is definitely real as an indication of harm to the body, but of course it is only a perception in the strictest sense - for instance, trees don't feel pain.

Because when you physically injure yourself, your nervous system reacts to indicate pain. It's all bound up with chemicals and receptors.

I would say that emotions are directly linked with neurochemicals. Emotions is an exact reinforcement of chemicals. Basically, the same way our body sends neuropeptides, to find out how the rest of our body is doing, it works for emotions as well.



Yes, it can be "turned off." What do you think morphine does? However, we have yet to find a pain reliever with enough of a margin of safety to completely turn off pain, mostly because medications have terrible side effects in large doses, and the main desired effects (pain relief) never completely shut off the brain's signaling mechanisms. .
No no, I believe I meant turned of indefinetly, by changing the chemical reactions. Experiecing pain is not only about chemical signals, it's also entied with emotion. Your brain works in two ways here, one to send a signal letting your brain know to stop whatever it is you're doing to cause the pain, determine what is actually going on, and to process it. There is a way to null the pain with placebos, that seem to decrease the sensitivity in certain parts of the brain. Some studies believe that the brain's belief in these placebos, can actually result in the release of pain releaving chemicals called opionds.

Therefore, pain seems to really be, just an emotional aspect working with of sectors of the brain. What I would find even more interesting is whether you can keep one part of the brain working (the one that basically works as our conscious (sensation), determining what we are doing, and working through problems (ie. burning your hand), and yet lose the actual feeling of pain.

Nociceptors is the receptor that causes you to feel even the slightest of pain. Nociceptors release chemicals called prostaglandins and leukotrienes, which work to increase the sensitivity. Research has already been shown that anti-inflammatory drugs, can block prostaglandins. Given that we can already do this, and have been able to for quite a long time, I think it is more definetly a possibility to intercept the stimuli that creates our pain indefinetly. I guess the real question is, how do we block pain, yet still react to harmful situations?

As for the Maury case, I believe the girl had a rare case of congenital insensitivity to pain, which means that her nervous system, was just not made up to detect pain, and they lack the stimuli to react to pain.

Another intereresting theory out involving the reception of pain, is the Gate Control Theory (http://www.spine-health.com/topics/cd/pain/chronic_pain_theories/chronic_pain_theory02.html), is lack of stimuli, where both the large and small nerve fibers work to block projection neutrons, thus not creating pain receptors. But like SangReal already pointed out, this only minimizes the pain, and does not stop it altogether. What needs to be researched much more is damaged skin tissue, in which send the nerve fibers the signal.

I'm sure in time, we will be able to stop pain entirely. I'm just not sure why we'd ever want to. As far as drugs that minimize pain because harmful, I would say there are definetly a lot of drugs out there that will reduce the pain in extreme amounts, but aren't necessarily harmful. A new study being conducted with human patients, shows that snail's venom can act as a very powerful agent in blocking neuropathic pain, without negative consequences.

In all honesty I feel that we cannot avoid pain, I feel pain is a part of living and during life everything that happens, happens for a reason..after all if there wasn't a reason why would we be here?

I don't understand why anyone would want to cut the pain out of their lives as at the end of the day, it's one of many things that makes us human. Pain may be hard to cope with at times but like a wound over time it will feel better!

Without the feeling of pain what would that leave us..pain is a feeling and once we learn to remove pain from our lives what will we want to remove next? Love? Emotions? There would be a void in us where we would once have experienced the pain and surely that would leave us feeling empty...and further on down the road would that feeling of emptyness just be another form of pain?

Personally i wouldn't want to not feel pain as its one element that makes me unique...doesn't the thought of removing your feelings make you feel like your being turned into a clone of everyone else? As if we all only experience the same feelings then soon we will all be thinking the same. I follow my feelings and wouldn't be without them. :)

~Kate~

I don't understand why anyone would want to cut the pain out of their lives as at the end of the day, it's one of many things that makes us human. Pain may be hard to cope with at times but like a wound over time it will feel better!

Chronic pain. It can persist indefinetly, and is not something that will go away on it's own. Just for arguments sake. ;)

Pain can be avoided.

"Suffering does not befall him who is without attachment to names and forms."

It's possible. Just whether or not we have the will or dedication to get there.

Chronic pain. It can persist indefinetly, and is not something that will go away on it's own. Just for arguments sake. ;)

Yes I guess so! Again I feel that that pain must be getting felt for a reason...but that is just probably because i am such a strong believer in fate, Everything we experience in life we are meant to experience. We actually have very little control over our own lives, :)

~Kate~

"for instance, trees don't feel pain." and you know this how?
Well, certainly trees don't feel pain in quite the way we do, since they lack a complex nervous system like ours.

I would say that emotions are directly linked with neurochemicals. Emotions is an exact reinforcement of chemicals. Basically, the same way our body sends neuropeptides, to find out how the rest of our body is doing, it works for emotions as well.
Right. But not really. Emotional pain is different from physical pain because we have control of it ourselves. We don't have "emotional receptors" on the surface of our hearts that feed us information. Therefore, we have more control over how we receive and interpret the emotional stimuli, as well as in how we respond to it. Emotion is NOT an "exact reinforcement of chemicals." Because honestly, where did the chemicals come from? They originate from our brain's interpretation of stimuli, our brain's expression of emotion.

No no, I believe I meant turned of indefinetly, by changing the chemical reactions. Experiecing pain is not only about chemical signals, it's also entied with emotion. Your brain works in two ways here, one to send a signal letting your brain know to stop whatever it is you're doing to cause the pain, determine what is actually going on, and to process it. There is a way to null the pain with placebos, that seem to decrease the sensitivity in certain parts of the brain. Some studies believe that the brain's belief in these placebos, can actually result in the release of pain releaving chemicals called opionds.
Right. The placebo effect is certainly well-documented. However, there is no evidence that people actually experience less neural pain signalling. On the contrary, nothing seems to have changed, except the perception of the patient. Although some believe that a placebo MAY trigger the release of endorphins, nobody has really proved that it is not just a change in the perception of pain. In any case, a placebo rarely if ever completely eradicates serious, chronic pain.

Therefore, pain seems to really be, just an emotional aspect working with of sectors of the brain. What I would find even more interesting is whether you can keep one part of the brain working (the one that basically works as our conscious (sensation), determining what we are doing, and working through problems (ie. burning your hand), and yet lose the actual feeling of pain.
I think that anytime you experience the sensation of burning your hand, you are feeling pain. If you are speaking of removing the unpleasantness of pain, sure, we can do that to an extent, but it doesn't negate the fact that we still feel SOMETHING.

Nociceptors is the receptor that causes you to feel even the slightest of pain. Nociceptors release chemicals called prostaglandins and leukotrienes, which work to increase the sensitivity. Research has already been shown that anti-inflammatory drugs, can block prostaglandins. Given that we can already do this, and have been able to for quite a long time, I think it is more definetly a possibility to intercept the stimuli that creates our pain indefinetly. I guess the real question is, how do we block pain, yet still react to harmful situations?
Actually, nociceptors only respond to strong pain stimuli at first. It is only after they have been repeatedly hyperstimulated that they become extremely pain-sensitized, so that even a breeze feels painful. It's also important to note that nociceptors are not the only pain receptors in our body, so even if we could block them somehow, there would still be others to control pain. However, for the greater part, you are right. To block pain totally would be completely and utterly maladaptive. It makes no sense.

As for the Maury case, I believe the girl had a rare case of congenital insensitivity to pain, which means that her nervous system, was just not made up to detect pain, and they lack the stimuli to react to pain.
I don't think you meant they lack the stimuli to detect pain; I think you meant that they lack the neural pathways to transmit sensation. Which makes me wonder, does she feel anything at all? And what on earth caused it?

Another intereresting theory out involving the reception of pain, is the Gate Control Theory (http://www.spine-health.com/topics/cd/pain/chronic_pain_theories/chronic_pain_theory02.html), is lack of stimuli, where both the large and small nerve fibers work to block projection neutrons, thus not creating pain receptors. But like SangReal already pointed out, this only minimizes the pain, and does not stop it altogether. What needs to be researched much more is damaged skin tissue, in which send the nerve fibers the signal.
I don't believe we can ever turn off our pain receptors, and I don't think we'd ever want to. Why? Because pain receptors are essentially just sensation receptors, the same ones that cause us to experience pleasure. It just doesn't make sense. The nociceptor, like many neuronal receptors, responds to the neurotransmitter norepinephrine (NE, or noradrenaline, for you old-schoolers). You can't just shut the NE system down. It has a pivotal role in our response to danger and helps to regulate various systems in our bodies (such as digestion, heartbeat, and breathing). Unfortunately, NE receptors are much the same in every part of the body. Therefore, we can't "convince" the nociceptor to just ignore NE signalling.

I'm sure in time, we will be able to stop pain entirely. I'm just not sure why we'd ever want to. As far as drugs that minimize pain because harmful, I would say there are definetly a lot of drugs out there that will reduce the pain in extreme amounts, but aren't necessarily harmful. A new study being conducted with human patients, shows that snail's venom can act as a very powerful agent in blocking neuropathic pain, without negative consequences.
You're right. Why would we ever want to? Pain informs us when something is wrong. If you didn't experience pain when you had appendicitis, you'd die. Nothing blocks anything without negative consequences. The body is in a delicate balance. Anything that disturbs that balance sets off chain reactions which we might not yet understand, but we know are there. For instance, people who artificially upregulate their GABA receptors through alcohol abuse will find that their bodies will downregulate them, either by stopping production of GABA or by blocking GABA receptors (the current preferred theory). Use alcohol long enough or often enough and these changes move to permanency. Alcohol's the easiest example, though certainly not the only one. Use of any substance (particularly drugs of abuse or analgesia) has permanent (or at least long-lasting) and potentially disastrous effects. All modern drugs used to treat pain have negative effects that cannot be overcome. Also, after a certain dose, they don't reduce pain anymore and can be extremely toxic. I don't think we'll ever get there, because God (or nature or evolution or whatever) designed our bodies to be a certain way, and there's a reason. Pain provides us with our greatest protection against danger. Without it, we wouldn't be able to survive. It's as necessary as breathing.

<3 Mary

Well, certainly trees don't feel pain in quite the way we do, since they lack a complex nervous system like ours.

Well... thats true. So i call a curse upon the one who neg-repped you for saying trees dont feel pain.

Trees dont feel pain. Same reason why grass doesnt cry or fall over, or dies, or screams in pain everything you step on grass.

They have no nervous system.

So i call a curse upon the one who neg-repped you for saying trees dont feel pain. Mary didn't say whether the reppage was positive or negative now did she?

Mary didn't say whether the reppage was positive or negative now did she?
I was wondering who repped me. The repper was benevolent. So please, rescind your curse.

<3 Mary

*rewinds curse*

Anyway, i have a real scientific/logical/reasoning sorta view on pain. I dont really get into the deep psychology of pain. Pain is just signals/receptors- including emotional. Chemicals, nerves, etc.

*rewinds curse*

Anyway, i have a real scientific/logical/reasoning sorta view on pain. I dont really get into the deep psychology of pain. Pain is just signals/receptors- including emotional. Chemicals, nerves, etc.
me too. it depends which kind of pain, but in the elementary school we always played "who can have her hand the longest time in the snow"...i always won, because i just ignored it...or i run with 8 years 1 1/2 hours without a break, because i just said to myself "your legs are running, not your body", and i run and run and run and dont get tired...omg this is so stupid, i cant do this now:(

There are two reasons I think we cannot avoid pain. One, pain warns you that something is not right. Usually it is linked to stimulus from either an injury or something that can cause injury (i.e. fire). If you got constant headaches when you woke up every day, but couldn't feel them, you might miss early warning signs of a brain tumor.

Two, without pain, you wouldn't really know what pleasure is. What would life really be like without pain? Life is a constant balance. The ying and yang, night and day, winter and summer, etc. We need stress and pain in our lives to give a sense of continuity, I suppose. One might say that through prayer or meditation, one can transcend such worldly sensations as pain, but once again, I ask if it is worth it. Without pain, food might not taste as good, and sex might as well just be for procreation. Just a humble opinion from yours truly.

There are two reasons I think we cannot avoid pain. One, pain warns you that something is not right. Usually it is linked to stimulus from either an injury or something that can cause injury (i.e. fire). If you got constant headaches when you woke up every day, but couldn't feel them, you might miss early warning signs of a brain tumor.

Two, without pain, you wouldn't really know what pleasure is. What would life really be like without pain? Life is a constant balance. The ying and yang, night and day, winter and summer, etc. We need stress and pain in our lives to give a sense of continuity, I suppose. One might say that through prayer or meditation, one can transcend such worldly sensations as pain, but once again, I ask if it is worth it. Without pain, food might not taste as good, and sex might as well just be for procreation. Just a humble opinion from yours truly.
You have stated why we may need to feel pain, but you have not stated why we cannot avoid it.

psicologically strong ppl may...