I searched and was surprised that this hasn't been brought up before. This article (http://entertainment.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=162979) gives a decent (though slightly biased) summary of Cosby's comments.


More Harsh Words from Bill Cosby
Jul 1, 5:13 PM EST

The Associated Press

CHICAGO -- Bill Cosby went off on another tirade against the black community Thursday, telling a room full of activists that too many black men are beating their wives while their children run around not knowing how to read or write.

Cosby made headlines in May when he upbraided some poor blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them. He shot back Thursday, saying his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black community's "dirty laundry."

"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other n------ as they're walking up and down the street," Cosby said during an appearance at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition & Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference.

"They think they're hip," the entertainer said.

"They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for black men who don't have jobs and are angry about their lives.

"You've got to stop beating up your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you're (earning) minimum wage," Cosby said. "You should have thought more of yourself when you were in high school, when you had an opportunity."

In his remarks in May at a commemoration of the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education desegregation decision, Cosby denounced some blacks' grammar and said those who commit crimes and wind up behind bars "are not political prisoners."

"I can't even talk the way these people talk, 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk," Cosby said then. "And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

Cosby elaborated Thursday on his previous comments in a talk interrupted several times by applause. He castigated some blacks, saying that they cannot simply blame whites for problems such as teen pregnancy and high school dropout rates.

"For me there is a time ... when we have to turn the mirror around," he said. "Because for me it is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps a person frozen in their seat, it keeps you frozen in your hole you're sitting in."

Cosby lamented that the racial slurs once used by those who lynched blacks are now a favorite expression of black children. And he blamed parents.

"When you put on a record and that record is yelling n----- and you've got your little 6-year-old, 7-year-old sitting in the back seat of the car, those children hear that," he said.

Cosby appeared Thursday with the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder and president of the education fund, who defended the entertainer's statements.

"Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson said. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."

Cosby also said many young people are failing to honor the sacrifices made by those who struggled and died during the civil rights movement.

"Dogs, water hoses that tear the bark off trees, Emmett Till," he said, naming the black youth who was tortured and murdered in Mississippi in 1955, allegedly for whistling at a white woman. "And you're going to tell me you're going to drop out of school? You're going to tell me you're going to steal from a store?"

Cosby also said he wasn't concerned that some whites took his comments and turned them "against our people."

"Let them talk," he said.

A lot of the things that Bill Cosby said sound stereotypical. In my town, I know a lot of black people that are careless, but I know an equal amount who are not. I think it just depends on the person. Just like there are a lot of white people who are careless and illiterate. But what he said doesn't sound racist to me...he just sounds concerned about his people.

He has a lot of good points, but what he said can be applied to everybody, not just one race.

...I do not know really how to debate this one. Do I agree with what he said... Yes. So I am just going to wait to see how this one plays out.

:) Bill Cosby's funny. It's actually kind of...cool? That he said some of those things, becuase some are true, others are extremely stereotypical, but I mean if a white person said anything like that I think it'd be a lot worse. I'm actually surprised that everyone's reacting like this. SO many entertainers make fun of black people like that, just like they make fun of white people.

SO many entertainers make fun of black people like that, just like they make fun of white people.But I don't think he was making fun of black people. Yes, his delivery was typically Cosby-esque, but I believe his message was full of conviction and concern. Additionally, I interpreted his coments as not being aimed at a specific racial group, per se, but at a cultural condition that affects all races in our society.

He sounds like a man who's sickened at the apathy and cynicism of some of his fellow African Americans... and in isolated cases, I daresay there's a lot of truth in the accusations he's levelling.

Having said that, it's never a good idea to generalise as broadly as he seems to be doing. To 'carpet bomb' his entire ethnic group because of the actions of a few... it's almost like he's apologising for himself and saying "Please don't tar me with the same brush". Put that slant on it, and it doesn't sound like he's trying to put a much needed rocket up the arse of a few underachievers... it just sounds selfish.

Which is a shame because as I said - he actually makes some good points.

Chris Rock does it better though. He says (and I quote) - " I love black people... I absolutely LOOOVE black people. But I fucking hate n*****s!" - and he then goes on to describe the kind of people that use the 'N' word as a title for themselves, take pride in having no education and live lives of petty crime. He makes the same points Cosby does, but he doesn't sound anywhere near as pompous about it.

We've all got members of our society that embarrass us with their behaviour - Over here it's the bloody Neds... (Scots will know who I mean). It's not a problem that's particular to Black America. I wonder why Cosby seems so keen to portray it so?

Chris Rock does it better though. He says (and I quote) - " I love black people... I absolutely LOOOVE black people. But I fucking hate n*****s!" - and he then goes on to describe the kind of people that use the 'N' word as a title for themselves, take pride in having no education and live lives of petty crime. He makes the same points Cosby does, but he doesn't sound anywhere near as pompous about it.

Point blank, right on the money.

As I've said on this commentary, I certainly agree with him on some points, although the way he's saying what he's saying is rather insulting.

I won't say all, but there's a good percentage of African-American youth that would rather look upon the lives of basketball players and rappers.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but when the lives of some of these basketball players and rappers that you're looking up to are marred by drugs, domestic violence, and kids by multiple mothers, that's not exactly a good place to look at for leadership.

We need a change in black leadership, too. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Kweisi Mfume (the leader of the NAACP) are essentially just figureheads. They have no power and their words are running on empty. It's to the point where nobody really wants to hear what they want to say. Shit, they'd rather listen to Chris Rock at this point (Not to say that Chris Rock is bad, but it makes the African American situation look like a joke)

We need optimistic, future-minded leaders in the vein of the Civil Rights leaders. Maybe then, somebody will listen. Until then, I don't see the situation changing.

But the key to change in the African-American community lies in (as it lies in most if not all ethnicities) the youth.

Chris Rock does it better though. He says (and I quote) - " I love black people... I absolutely LOOOVE black people. But I fucking hate n*****s!" - and he then goes on to describe the kind of people that use the 'N' word as a title for themselves, take pride in having no education and live lives of petty crime. He makes the same points Cosby does, but he doesn't sound anywhere near as pompous about it.

Thanks Head :D I was gonna say something about Chris Rock but I wasn't sure if it was acurate or not...

I guess it's about time I added to this too, I guess.

I agree a lot with what he said, but it was WAY too generalized. He makes it seem as if every black person were a lazy piece of shit. A lot of us are, but it's not THAT bad. Honestly, it's like that with every race.

Maybe I'll say more later. I'm late for work.

A friend of mine posted the following on another web forum:


The point Cosby is making is that black failure is not due to the "white man holding the black man down". Nobody forces an inner city child to drop out of school, nobody say[s] to a white inner city child who drops out, it is the black man's fault you didn't get an education.

The problem is that inner city kids drop out and shortchange their education, and Cosby is telling the black one's that it is there fault for doing so. I have NO doubt he'd say the same exact damn thing to white inner city kids who drop out.


Cosby is not over-generalizing: he is using guarded language such as "some," and he is attacking a specific set of well recognized problems.

A friend of mine posted the following on another web forum:
[quote=Dawntreader]The point Cosby is making is that black failure is not due to the "white man holding the black man down". Nobody forces an inner city child to drop out of school, nobody say[s] to a white inner city child who drops out, it is the black man's fault you didn't get an education.Does your friend realise just how much (s)he's generalising here? The reasons why a black kid from Compton, Cabrini Green or Harlem* might drop out of school are many and complex - It's a simple fact that social pressures mean that not everyone has the same chances.

For my part, I'll share this. I was brought up in a council Estate - what Americans would call "The Projects". My brother and I were quite smart at primary school. Not geniuses, but smart. The work didn't cause us any real problems. When we outstripped most of the other kids in our class, the parents of the other kids didn't take too kindly to it. I was bullied and beaten up regularly for being a "Smart arse"... my parents even had their front room window broken with a brick because they didn't fit in anymore (not that they ever did). I can tell you that the unspoken peer pressure to 'fit in' was incredible. My parents took a massive step in moving to another town with us... trying to fit in somewhere else themselves in order to escape the pressures that were put on us, just because we weren't as stupid as the vocal element of the people around us.

Now, transplant yourself to inner city Chicago, L.A. or New York. YOU try to mingle with disadvantaged, self-deprecating kids who suffer from low self-esteem and (through learned behaviour) low self control. Tell me you'd "Be all you can be" if you thought it'd get you a knife in the ribs.

The number of social indicators that Dawntreader has overlooked is simply laughable. Tell her/him that I said so. The problem is that inner city kids drop out and shortchange their education, and Cosby is telling the black one's that it is there fault for doing so.Put it bluntly - he's BLAMING them. There are a million and one reasons why they may not be directly at fault... See above. Partially at fault? Probably. But to leave no room for mitigation is just... Gah. I have NO doubt he'd say the same exact damn thing to white inner city kids who drop out.Why? What's the basis for that assessment? Why isn't Cosby a speaker against youth under-achievement all over America? Why does he only concentrate on the Black community?
Cosby is not over-generalizing: he is using guarded language such as "some," and he is attacking a specific set of well recognized problems.Yes... and that's really how it comes across. :rolleyes: Either Cosby expects everybody who hears him to pick up on the tiniest of nuance in his speeches (which I find hard to believe, since his chosen targets are all illiterate troglodytes, according to him) OR... he's just a bit too ham-fisted in his speech. Remember, I (amongst others) have interpreted his words to be grossly generalised...) You decide.

*yes, I'm aware I'm stereotyping. That's kinda the point.

Does your friend realise just how much (s)he's generalising here? The reasons why a black kid from Compton, Cabrini Green or Harlem* might drop out of school are many and complex - It's a simple fact that social pressures mean that not everyone has the same chances.


Lack of relevancy.

The reasons are complex, what dawntreader said was that "it is not the white man holding the black man down" when it happens. I grow up in a town where attendance is less than 40% of what it should be for the first few weeks of school every year.


I can tell you that the unspoken peer pressure to 'fit in' was incredible.


This, in a nutshell, is one of the things that Cosby is commenting on. The culture that presently exists.


The number of social indicators that Dawntreader has overlooked is simply laughable. Tell her/him that I said so. Put it bluntly - he's BLAMING them.


"The point Cosby is making is that black failure is not due to the 'white man holding the black man down'."

You can blame the complex culture on why a kid drops out, it doesn't change the end result. Cosby fought his way through all of these things to get his Ph.D. back in 1972 from U of M Amherst, he has an understandable level of scorn for those who don't even try or who defend their "way of life" and then turn around and yell that it is the fault of the "white man."

If you don't think the culture that exists that does exactly this, I invite you to visit the St. Thomas Housing Projects. Take a walk through Alice Fortier High School. Why that culture exists is irrelevant. it does exist, it is self-propagating and [i]that is the cutlure to which Cosby was speaking.


There are a million and one reasons why they may not be directly at fault...

As Cosby said, maybe its time to turn the mirror around.


Why isn't Cosby a speaker against youth under-achievement all over America?


Because youth-underachievement is not what he is driving at here.

He is going after a culture where marriage is virtually non-existent and single mothers are the norm.

He is going after a culture that lives in the inner cities and which doesn't value education.

He is going after a culture which was encouraged by their intelligentsia to speak Ebonics and which pushed to have Ebonics taught in schools as an english dialect.


Why does he only concentrate on the Black community?


He gives large sums of money to further inner city education, not just that of blacks.

[quote[
Yes... and that's really how it comes across. :rolleyes: Either Cosby expects everybody who hears him to pick up on the tiniest of nuance in his speeches (which I find hard to believe, since his chosen targets are all illiterate troglodytes, according to him) OR... he's just a bit too ham-fisted in his speech. Remember, I (amongst others) have interpreted his words to be grossly generalised...) You decide.
[/quote]

OR no one is reading his actual words but only media accounts of them, which of course are not designed to pick up on nuances but broad points. You decide.

I think Bill Cosby's statement was true, and brave.
I live in the South and work in a State prison, and his statements truly hit "home" with me.
I see the reality and truth of his comments on a daily basis, and I commend him for addressing the issue.
The problems he spoke of and the black populus he was targetting is real and is not getting any better.
I only wish that instead of just pointing out the problem, he would have offered some type of solution...but I'm not sure anyone has that answer.
Like I said, *hats off* to Cosby for voicing his concerns...I feel that this must be a deeply disturbing personal issue for him to come forward and make that statement.
I have always respected his opinions and thoughts on family and education throughout the years, and this is no exception.

When I was in high school, my black friends and I didn't care about "hip hop, bling bling, yadda yadda yadda." Sure we had our cultural differences but they were just that, differences. What he is stating is that those differences have become a way of life which has become more important. Inner city kids have a much harder life than that of a middle America white kid I'll agree, but to not see it as digression and promote it as being "hip" is the problem. That's all he was saying.

Never under estimate the power of an angry person. (They have changed the world.) This person just so happened to be black. He directed his anger at the ones who sparked the anger. He loves his culture and thats why he said what he said. He didn't say it to degrade or "cut down" a certain race. He attacked key issues of the day not social problems from the past that made that culture what it is today. He wants it to stop. Not evolve. Change. He has valid points and people should not take his comments out of context. They were designed to change not to humiliate.

tMR

I disconnect electricity in a 3 parish area in southeast Louisiana 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I see some of the poorest quality of life around. I also see some of the stupidest people around. I find that stupidity very often equals poverty, however poverty doesn't necessarily imply that a person is stupid. The racial makeup of the area is no more than 1/3 black, but the distinct majorty of the people who miss their due date (roughly 2/3) and thereby end up on my list are black... it's saddening. If that offends your sense of political correctness then I'm sorry and you can call me a liar if you want, but that's just the truth of the matter.

I think it's a problem that stems back directly to what Cosby was saying. These people need to do more to help themselves. And no, it's not just the black people. Essentially all of the white people I see are of the stereotypical trailer trash hick/redneck variety. Many of Cosby's points could apply to these people as well. Laziness, stupidity, poverty... breed them and 99% of the time you get more stupid lazy poor people. Unfortunately breeding is a major pastime of these lower society people, from my job experience. How many children raised in slums by selfish lazy asses who view their kids as baggage are going to succeed in life? I think it's a viscious cycle that's slowly eating our country alive.

I disconnect electricity in a 3 parish area in southeast Louisiana 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I see some of the poorest quality of life around. I also see some of the stupidest people around. I find that stupidity very often equals poverty, however poverty doesn't necessarily imply that a person is stupid. The racial makeup of the area is no more than 1/3 black, but the distinct majorty of the people who miss their due date (roughly 2/3) and thereby end up on my list are black... it's saddening. If that offends your sense of political correctness then I'm sorry and you can call me a liar if you want, but that's just the truth of the matter.

I think it's a problem that stems back directly to what Cosby was saying. These people need to do more to help themselves. And no, it's not just the black people. Essentially all of the white people I see are of the stereotypical trailer trash hick/redneck variety. Many of Cosby's points could apply to these people as well. Laziness, stupidity, poverty... breed them and 99% of the time you get more stupid lazy poor people. Unfortunately breeding is a major pastime of these lower society people, from my job experience. How many children raised in slums by selfish lazy asses who view their kids as baggage are going to succeed in life? I think it's a viscious cycle that's slowly eating our country alive.

Amen.
Who set the viscious cycle on spin?

youth-underachievement is not what he is driving at here.

He is going after a culture where marriage is virtually non-existent and single mothers are the norm.

He is going after a culture that lives in the inner cities and which doesn't value education.

He is going after a culture which was encouraged by their intelligentsia to speak Ebonics and which pushed to have Ebonics taught in schools as an english dialect. So, what he's saying is that Lazy, stupid people piss him off - more so when lazy, stupid people try to make a virtue out of those attributes? Don't get me wrong - I'm 100% on message here. He's leaning against an open door. But, if it ISN'T under-achievers and apathetics and cynics that he's having a go at, then who IS he aiming at?

I'll accept that there are enough people practising the described lifestyle to warrant being labeled a Culture. What I can't reconcile myself with is the fact that he seems to be overlooking the many people caught up in that culture, who perhaps don't possess the strength to fight free from it, who are simply victims of circumstance. If he isn't overlooking their existence then he's definitely overlooking how the problem should be addressed appropriately.

It comes back to this simple point - you CAN'T tar everyone with the same brush. If Cosby feels the need to vent his spleen on people who remain wilfully ignorant and attempt to present their own bad behaviour as a social norm, that's fair enough. Let him do it in the privacy of his own home... I do the same thing. But if he wanted to target the people who behave like that and make his feelings known to them directly, then he has signally failed to do so with the words he's spoken.

He gives large sums of money to further inner city education, not just that of blacks. Cool. :)

Yes... and that's really how it comes across. :rolleyes: Either Cosby expects everybody who hears him to pick up on the tiniest of nuance in his speeches (which I find hard to believe, since his chosen targets are all illiterate troglodytes, according to him) OR... he's just a bit too ham-fisted in his speech. Remember, I (amongst others) have interpreted his words to be grossly generalised...) You decide.OR no one is reading his actual words but only media accounts of them, which of course are not designed to pick up on nuances but broad points. You decide.I'm only commenting on what I've been presented with. If you're telling me that that the version in your original post was media edited to the point that it was no longer representative of the facts, well... Come on. You don't seriously expect me to swallow that, do you?

Cosby is doing a great service to the nation as a WHOLE. However, I think he should focus more on what those caught up in this vicious cycle can do to get out of it. Learn to be responsible with your money. I went to the middleschool with a very large percent of the students coming from families on welfare. I come from a pretty well to do area, yet these kids wore much more expensive clothes than me, they had extravagant allowances ($15-$30 a week? for an 11 year old? Come on!), and wore gold necklaces.

This lack of respect for the effort it takes to earn money explains the failure of inner-city schools. My highschool is in a very well to do area, yet my county spends only $7,000 per student each year, whereas D.C. schools spend $13,000 per student a year. D.C. schools are run down because the students destroy property (which is replaced over and over again). Computer labs, new facilities, and the best textbooks doesn't bring about automatic academic success. Without the willingness to learn, this money is being thrown away.

Cosby needs to be commended for his actions, especially by the black community, and what better way than to fix their degenerate culture?

Memphis, Tennessee is a PERFECT example of what Cosby is talking about. A white person could never get away with saying what he said, but it was still time to say it. The Memphis City Schools spend about 3 times more per student than the Shelby County Schools do. This doesn't include free or discounted lunch programs or welfare programs of any type. Yet the SCS is the top-rated system in the state, while the MCS is practically the lowest. The city schools are about 80% black, while the county schools are about 72% white. I'M NOT SAYING THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE BAD. All I'm saying is that the statistics don't lie (or do they?). The "hip-hop culture" (or whatever you wanna call it) is destroying these kids' chance at a future. Head, you're right. Some of them are too weak to escape. But Cosby is also right in attacking those who imprison themselves. All the time I hear "it's the white man's fault," and it's not true. People are buying their children $200 tennis shoes but not bothering to make sure they are properly educated. The City of Memphis is building its third sports arena in as many years when its schools are underfunded. Couldn't we draw better teachers if they made more money? Wouldn't smaller class sizes and teachers who care help the kids to escape the walls their peers have built around them? But African American leaders have decided sports arenas are a better investment than mere children. This is the mindset Cosby is criticizing. Parents may have limited funds. That's understandable and regrettable. But choosing to spend the little money they have on frivolous things like designer clothes and expensive tennis shoes is simply inexcusable. As Cosby said, it's time to end the madness.

The Memphis City Schools spend about 3 times more per student than the Shelby County Schools do.

he City of Memphis is building its third sports arena in as many years when its schools are underfunded.

Sounds to me like Memphis City Schools aren't underfunded, or if they are, then Shelby County Schools are in much worse shape...

The problem isn't that these failing schools like Memphis City's are failing not because of pecuniary matters. A couple of decades ago computers weren't in the classroom, a few decades before that air conditioned classrooms were not the norm, centuries ago books were a rarity. Yet many people living in those situations learned; our greatest thinkers grew up without today's luxuries. The reason Memphis City Schools are failing is because of the students' (and perhaps to a greater extent, their parents') priorities. "Poverty" is not the problem in America's schools, inner-city American culture is.

I'm interested, Amy's Immortal (and by the way - there HAS to be a snappier name for you than that ;) ) - what are the parent's priorities and how do they detract from the student's ability to learn?

What exactly is American "Inner City Culture" and how does it affect educational policy?

Finally, you said this - Cosby needs to be commended for his actions, especially by the black community, and what better way than to fix their degenerate culture?What does tht mean, exactly? Is the whole of Black America degenerate?

Because that's how it comes across...

I see some of the poorest quality of life around. I also see some of the stupidest people around.How much does stupidity really play into these situations? I would say it's more or less a lack of knowing exactly how to get out, verses laziness. It's a hell of a lot easier to just except what you have grown up with, and be excepted within that circumstancial community, then to try and fight your way out.

I agree with Cosby's comments, and feel that he did touch alot of particularly important issues, but what he did lack is a plan. You can say that everyone has the right and freedom to prosper themselves, it's easy. The problem lies in the fact that it's a downward spiral stemming from inadequate education, little to no supervision, and eventually children out of wedlock which are often not wanted, but because of poor medical are then inevitable. Now to see real achievement, an outside party would not be necessary need to step in, but could substantially help.

I find that stupidity very often equals poverty, however poverty doesn't necessarily imply that a person is stupid.I find that lack of opportunity and social entrapment play more of a role in where someone is situated in society, and stupidity is just as relevant as it is with a white person from an upper class society.

Many of Cosby's points could apply to these people as well. Laziness, stupidity, poverty... breed them and 99% of the time you get more stupid lazy poor people.I really hate how you keep bring up how being socially deprived equals stupidity. I agree that by a certain age, anyone is given atleast a fleeting chance at making it, however those who don't, are not necessarily stupid. Poor people are not necessarily stupid. You may call them lazy, you can say they did nothing to better their living condition, but to say that someone is stupid merely based on their income or lack of, really bothers me.

...culture...

I quoted that cuz im directing this at people wh osee black people as a completely different "culture".

Well, I never looked at black people as... part of another culture, really. Unless they recently did come from another country (not USA) recently, or their parents or something. I mean, is that guy a black person from Russia? I thought culture applied to country and bringing your heritage and whatnot...if you mean culture like in their speech, i hear white people ("wiggers") talk like that all the time- and just as many getting uneducated and blah blah. So does that mean that those "wiggers" are a diff. culture too?

Sorry if this went sorta off topic, but I was just curious why another group in America is considered a completely different culture...=\ I mean, as far as I can tell, black people dress like the rest of America, speak like some other white people (with many educated), and its not like black people are ESPECIALLY uneducated- some white people are, as well.. I dont really see a cultural difference. So many similarities are shared, that I see it blended and mixed- not really another culture.

To amys_immortal (Or something like that...=B)
Is there an inner-city culture?... That, I really got confused about. So when an inner-city person moves to uh...the outskirts, do they bring all their um...inner-city cultures, habits, and lifestyle with them?... Yeah, so, sorta confused on that...=\

Otherwise, I think Cosby is doing a lot for people by saying this. Honestly, I'd like to know: Out of those alive today who are black, who would stand up and speak to everyone like Cosby did? I personally don't know any. No offense- but I don't. So I think everything he said almost hit the bullseye.

Miss Angelia, I fully agree with you that some of these people are trapped. It's very sad. And as for doing something about it? Millions and millions of people are in that bottom of the barrel category. Efforts can be made to help make the situation better, but to actually cause a revolutionary change in the way all of these people live their lives is simply impossible. I really wish it wasn't. I'd love to see these people put in a better situation. Your last paragraph is dedicated to how I think poor people are stupid. I clearly didn't say that everyone who is socially deprived is stupid. I wen't out of my way to make sure I didn't imply that, as evidenced by my statement below.

I find that stupidity very often equals poverty, however poverty doesn't necessarily imply that a person is stupid.
"very often" does not mean always.

And I agree with your statement here in that what you said, although not exclusively what you said, is a big part of the problem.
I agree with Cosby's comments, and feel that he did touch alot of particularly important issues, but what he did lack is a plan. You can say that everyone has the right and freedom to prosper themselves, it's easy. The problem lies in the fact that it's a downward spiral stemming from inadequate education, little to no supervision, and eventually children out of wedlock which are often not wanted, but because of poor medical are then inevitable. Now to see real achievement, an outside party would not be necessary need to step in, but could substantially help.

You ask how much stupidity really plays into these situations? Do you realize what I see every day at work? I see people with open sewer pipes coming out of the back of their 80 year old shacks with heaps and heaps of beer cans piled in the yard, maggot infested piles of shit that I can only assume was food at one point sitting beside the door, and an old rusty 1980's Buick Regal with 24" CHROME RIMS sitting in the driveway with a DVD player and more speakers than an IMAX theater... and I'm there to turn off the electricity because they can't pay the bill. Sometimes they don't know which utility I'm from, because they're expecting the water and cable (if they actually have that) and whatever else to be turned off imminently. And I return to these same people over and over and over again. They lie to me as often as possible. They go through the disconnect and reconnect cycle every month, which only adds a $35 per month strain on their finances due to the reconnect fees. I promise you with all my heart that I'm not exaggerating and that sights like that are very common. Another thing that I get on the job... I am the mean white supressor who is screwing up their lives. I'm malicious. I'm there to enjoy the sad faces on their children when their TV goes black and the air conditioner goes off in the 120 degree Louisiana heat index.... I REALLY hate that. It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.

I'm not talking down about these people like I'm high and mighty as if I'd like to sweep them under the rug and make them go away. It BOTHERS me that they have their priorities so horribly screwed up. And I'm not just talking about black people here, as I also said in my first post. I wish I could just tell these people to stop buying 8 cases of beer each week, put normal rims on their car, pay their bills on time, and start saving money to get themselves in a better situation. Most of these people could do that and I know it for a fact.

I respect your opinion, but the only problem I have is that you seemed to think I was saying something I wasn't.

I see people with open sewer pipes coming out of the back of their 80 year old shacks with heaps and heaps of beer cans piled in the yard, maggot infested piles of shit that I can only assume was food at one point sitting beside the door, and an old rusty 1980's Buick Regal with 24" CHROME RIMS sitting in the driveway with a DVD player and more speakers than an IMAX theater... and I'm there to turn off the electricity because they can't pay the bill.

And I return to these same people over and over and over again. They lie to me as often as possible.

Another thing that I get on the job... I am the mean white supressor who is screwing up their lives. I'm malicious. I'm there to enjoy the sad faces on their children when their TV goes black and the air conditioner goes off in the 120 degree Louisiana heat index.... I REALLY hate that. It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.

Aha, the hoodrich peoples..

Yea, they got the williams :rolleyes: and I know it sucks being the one who has to do the job, since people will take their anger out on you.

I've been meaning to reply to this topic since I read it today but haven't read the entire Cosby quote yet (been tired today, and just skimming through this) and cause I'm about to go to work in a few hours, so hopefully I can reply to this later once I get more time.

and an old rusty 1980's Buick Regal with 24" CHROME RIMS sitting in the driveway with a DVD player and more speakers than an IMAX theater...


There are alot of really poor people in Hawaii, and they seem to have the same priorities. In the valley in which I live, there are government housing projects right across from our house. While they don't live in squalor, they are in gvt housing. Their kids run around shoeless, often shirtless, sometimes only in a daiper. And what do you see parked in front of the house? A shiny new mercedes or bmw with 24 inch rotating rims and racing tires, without a speck of dirt on them, while some of the kids look like they haven't bathed in days. I do not need to really wonder where their priorities lie, it's pretty obvious. And I can't count how many times I've seen repo trucks towing these things away.

and the cup runeth over... I just got this article from my local newpaper (http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=72874&ran=151756)


Hampton Roads activists concerned with black youth
By RONNIE RATLIFF JR., The Virginian-Pilot
© July 10, 2004

NORFOLK — In two recent speeches, Bill Cosby strongly criticized black Americans – especially black youths – for veering into lives of poverty and crime. Some black leaders in Norfolk and Virginia Beach who agree with Cosby want to do something about it.

“It’s time to hold people accountable for their actions and straighten out the social ills that plague black people,” said Carlos A. Howard , a community activist and Norfolk businessman. “We have to get our community out of this state of emergency.”

A recent drug bust that erupted in gunfire at a Military Circle mall and acts of violence by blacks prompted Howard and several other community leaders to ask elected officials, businesses, civic leagues and churches to join together and come up with solutions to the high involvement in crime, low school test scores and poverty that they say trouble many black Americans.

Howard and five other leaders met in Norfolk’s Park Place neighborhood Friday speaking on a theme of personal responsibility, saying the black community can no longer blame white America for its plight.

“White people aren’t out here killing the people in our community … it’s black on black,” Howard said.

Some said that it is disheartening to watch the local evening news on television when most of the suspects in violent crimes are young blacks.

The group will hold a public forum next Saturday at First Baptist Bolling Brook in Norfolk for people to discuss the problems and offer solutions.

At the meeting, community leaders hope to encourage participants to take responsibility for raising their families, for ending the drugs and violence and for improving their economic outlook, Howard said.

“We’re hoping people will stop talking about what’s wrong with African-Americans and finally agree to get in line and do what needs to be done,” said Michael Muhammad , a Norfolk representative of the Nation of Islam.

Dr. Jabari Evans , a youth activist and minister from Portsmouth who’s not involved in the campaign said he hopes the group will focus less on the bad elements of the community and more on the positive images that young people can strive to meet.

“Countless numbers of black children live in non welfare dependent, two-parent households, where the children do not sell drugs, join gangs or get pregnant in their teens,” Evans said. “Lets not overstate these problems.”

The group of community activists concedes that blacks have made progress, but says there is still a large population that has to learn to live in a better way.

The group didn’t announce any detailed solutions of their own, though they hope to get recommendations from the public at the forum.

Georgia Gregory , president of the Virginia Beach branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said she hopes that religious leaders will build a united front against any destructive influences from within the black community.

“There are no easy solutions for reducing illiteracy, poverty and crime from within our own ranks other than the whole community having one voice,” she said.

I'm interested, Amy's Immortal (and by the way - there HAS to be a snappier name for you than that ;) ) - what are the parent's priorities and how do they detract from the student's ability to learn?

What exactly is American "Inner City Culture" and how does it affect educational policy?

Finally, you said this - What does tht mean, exactly? Is the whole of Black America degenerate?

Because that's how it comes across...

First of all, I like the name Amy's Immortal. If you knew the whole story, you'd know the name is very ambiguous. Amy Lee's Immortal? or a different Amy's ;)

Many times parents in inner-cities don't value education. If the parents don't value education, then they are unlikely to encourage their kids to do well in school. If the parents value sleazy culture (ie, rap culture (really, rap is more of a culture than it is music...)) then it is likely their children won't grow up with proper values.

Inner-city culture is generally rap culture. You have to remember, there are always exceptions, generalizations are powerful tools. In a world of finite resources and patience, it is more efficent to make policy based on the majority than the exceptions.

Inner-city culture effects educational policy in that the majority of students in failing schools aren't well off. Of course, officials want to appear to be doing something about this, so they throw more and more money into the problem without dealing with the cause of the problem. As I have said before; the problem isn't a pecuniary one, it's a problem with priorities. When the failing schools are getting more than twice as much money per capita as the ones that are succeeding, obviously something needs to be done other than throwing more money at it.

Cosby needs to be commended for his actions, especially by the black community, and what better way than to fix their degenerate culture?

What I mean is that instead of complaining about their schools being underfunded (when they receive more funding than predominately white schools), they should try harder. There are always excuses for failing, rather than using these excuses to validate their failure, they should instead overcome their problems.

Rap culture is what I am referring to. There is hardly any dispute that rap culture is degenerate. The whole of Black America isn't degenerate, just those that belong to "rap culture", which is the vast majority.

Okay, first off, on Cosby's commentary...

It's true a lot of poor blacks have what is known as "bad" grammar, but it's just how we (we as in 'urban,' since I am not black) talk. "Bad" grammar does not make people bad necessarily but I can see what Cosby means by it can't get you important positions as in the government and such. Oh well then.

I know he thinks people cussin all the time and callin each other niggas is wrong, but it's a different generation. It's not affiliated with nigger at all. I can understand how some people want to rid of the word entirely, but it just ain't gon happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not even soon in the future. It has nothing to do with being "hip"..

It does suck how a lot of poorer people cannot read or write. But this applies to all races, not just blacks. All races have lazy young people who fail to do good in school. In my hood, we have a lot of young smart blacks who did great in high school, and are now in college (even if they don't like the one right by the high school they went to befo)..of course there's a lot of people who are failures but that's life for you I guess.

"I can't even talk the way these people talk, 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk," Cosby said then. "And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."
Like I said earlier. It's just how it is :rolleyes: the youth who grows up in the hood will, in most cases, speak ebonics and such. Can't really blame the parents cause they was taught to talk that way as well. How you gon teach your kid "proper english" when you speak ebonics too, nah mean?

He castigated some blacks, saying that they cannot simply blame whites for problems such as teen pregnancy and high school dropout rates.
That's true. A lot of blacks blame whites for simple things even if it's not true. I hate to admit it but I do it myself at times, cause personally I get mistreated a lot due to my race, by whites too (like today.. :rolleyes: ). Also being in an area with many blacks of my race, it's not like I'm always accepted. It's more like I'm accepted equally by 25%, and the other 50% views me not as white but not equal, while the other 25% views me as the same as whites :rolleyes: some blacks just won't accept the fact that sometimes their own race is to blame for some of their problems. Cause seriously, you got black on black crime. That's not caused by the white man. That's caused by bad upbringings/hangin out with the wrong crowd. And it's sad how that type of crime exists, not to mention hatin more light-skinned blacks or darker blacks. Some blacks just make fun of Africans (as in actual Africans) or view them as outcasts.

Yup, it sucks how little kids be hearing rap and cussin and shit at such young ages. But that's how it is. You can't really do anything about it in blue collar areas. It's always like that pretty much.

As for the whole "blacks are lazy" thing. All races are lazy. Shit, I'm lazy :p it is true that if more blacks and mexicans put their minds to it, they could be somebody really important. But poverty also plays a big role in it. You'll have people who are smart and do they work in high school but not enough to get great scholarships. Shit, I know one black dude who is smart, he just didn't get enough scholarship $ to be able to go to UNC. So he's spent like the last 2 years working (he's 19 right now), and is now about to go to my college possibly (he's considering it)...so yea, he has to go to a black college in the hood. It sucks when you're broke huh?

When I was in college, everyone in my English class was black but me (well that was the case with all my classes pretty much, but...I do got a point comin up)..people did their work. For real, some students actually did their work! (to those who don't got a clue which is most of you, my college...like half the freshman drop out each year and they skip all the time. In math class it got so bad that our class of 50, after takin the roll, half the class just got up at the same time and LEFT. Now that's gangsta :eek: :rolleyes: ) Anyways, I was the only person in the class to get an A+ on this one assignment. Everyone did the assignment and the second highest grade was like a B+. Yea we had smart people in our class, I guess. Teacher wanted to talk to me after class and asked how I managed to do so well on the assignment, then she's like, "Well, considering pretty much everyone on this campus has had bad educations...and weren't taught very good while growing up, their uses of punctuations, commas, periods, etc. are usually wrong. They'll usually on papers, write "was" instead of "were." Even on quizzes, they can't distinguish which one is correct, which is "were." So she was askin how I know all this shit. I actually had a tutor while growing up due to a.) being a little bit slow and horrible at math and b.) cause I sucked at grammar and shit. so that's why I'm knowledged with this shit I guess? Anyways, that's how it is and it sucks. I don't know if I'm going off-topic or whatever but I'm hoping I kept on topic. Just got home after a 10=5 shift with hardly any sleep so I'm pretty tired.

Many of our "leaders" in the rap game do use nigga commonly. Take the general "leaders" that we all know. Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Black Thought and ?uestlove of The Roots, Kanye West, Common. You know why they don't care about the word? Cause for one, the meaning's changed, and there are much more important matters out there pertaining to the black youth. Much more important matters. This is not white people using the word commonly (rare as HELL cases..)..this is blacks using a word that does not have an "-er" at the end.

The youth don't care for politics, civil rights activist leaders, and such. Not that much as rap/entertainment, you know what I'm sayin. They pay more attention to tv, sports, music. Now, them idols they look up to usually suck, especially in the rap game. So yea, that's just sad how rappers are like that.

Rappers be like, "This CD is for my black people in the hoods." Man, no one in the hood is buying your shit. The # of people you made your CD for who actually BOUGHT IT is like 10, 15%. Guess who else buys your CDs. 60, 70% white females in the suburbs. Rest, white guys. Rappers really need to get their shit together and use their brains, for real..

Few rappers are keepin it real these days for their people in the hood. The only main ones I can think of are Dead Prez and Saigon. Their album titles are even inspirational - "RBG...Red Green Blue/Revolutionary But Gangsta" and "Dear Black America" (which has not been released yet actually)..they touch on real issues, including politics, tryin to achieve peace, even between the Bloods and Crips, hell, all gangs in general, etc. What happened to that Bloods/Crips picnic in the 90s huh. Did nothin didn't it?

That's all I have to say on the subject I guess since I'm hearing thunder right now and better go do something else than be on the computer (lost 5 or 6 modems to storms, even if that was in my old area, I'm not risking it, especially with a cable modem now instead of 56K)...hopefully someday people who grow up in poverty will be able to have a better education (if we had a better economy and such) and stuff. Not just blacks but all minorities in general. And maybe someday all minorities will be able to get along more. Cause personally, it really sucks when a lot of not only whites but blacks as well discriminate against you and you're a minority as well. I don't get much trouble with Mexicans/Hispanics at all. But yea, there's still blacks hating on Mexicans/Hispanics even, although it's not as much as they do with whites. If narrowminded people were taught that all races are equal that'd be nice. Especially that all minorities are equal considering we all struggle against racism (personally more for me than others of my race I guess), all sorts of discrimination and etc. Let there be equality! :rolleyes:

Many times parents in inner-cities don't value education. If the parents don't value education, then they are unlikely to encourage their kids to do well in school. If the parents value sleazy culture (ie, rap culture (really, rap is more of a culture than it is music...)) then it is likely their children won't grow up with proper values.

Inner-city culture is generally rap culture. You have to remember, there are always exceptions, generalizations are powerful tools. In a world of finite resources and patience, it is more efficent to make policy based on the majority than the exceptions.
Rap culture is what I am referring to. There is hardly any dispute that rap culture is degenerate. The whole of Black America isn't degenerate, just those that belong to "rap culture", which is the vast majority.

That's true, unfortunately. But hip hop is the culture and rap is the musical element of hip hop, as well as DJing. I wouldn't call rap culture sleazy exactly...but urban.

A lot of hip hop heads who do not have a good education or speak "properly" :rolleyes: ain't stupid either. A lot of people just need to really apply themselves with school and make something of themselves. Like my procrastinating...second-year freshman self :rolleyes: there are a lot of ignorant people who listen to rap but there is also a lot who are not ignorant, but just lazy.

there are a lot of ignorant people who listen to rap but there is also a lot who are not ignorant, but just lazy.

That's just as bad.

That's true, unfortunately. But hip hop is the culture and rap is the musical element of hip hop, as well as DJing.

I call it the rap culture. :p

In any case; the problem with "failing" schools is rarely caused by underfunding, infact, "failing" schools generally get more money than schools that are succeeding. The problem is caused mostly by the students and their priorities.

That's just as bad.

I call it the rap culture. :p

In any case; the problem with "failing" schools is rarely caused by underfunding, infact, "failing" schools generally get more money than schools that are succeeding. The problem is caused mostly by the students and their priorities.

True, but it's like with with everyone of all cultures. What a lazy world we live in :rolleyes: :p

Actually, the major high school in my hood is big as HELL. I've never been in it being I just moved to this part of the city about a half year ago so and went to a different high school. I'm not sure if they're underfunded or not, but my state is, according to last year's results from what someone told me, the 49th state in education. That's pretty...bad. It's always been in the late 40s as of the past few years or who knows, maybe even longer.

Actually the high school I went to was "failing" pretty bad and we didn't get much $ at all :confused: we always had paper shortages, lack of books, etc...no chalk...HAHA...ghetto country :rolleyes: but I know what you mean, it's like that in most cases. It's like that everywhere with all races. This world just needs to stop being so goddamn lazy and apply themselves, you know? Work harder, make something of themselves (what a hypocrite I am!)..yea.

At least there are some things being done about lazy students. There used to be a site called Urban Youth Journalism which was based in the housing projects of Chicago, Illinois (ok, so I doubt I needed to say the state)..but it's been dead for awhile now, the site. What a shame considering it had many good articles on it. BUT regardless:

http://www.urbanwordnyc.org/about.html
http://www.hiphopcongress.com/yourworld/voices.html

The first site is a program that helps the urban youth to make something of themselves, especially to help with grammar skills. The sad thing is many of the urban youth do not see themselves in a better place/position in the future. They just accept what they have, you know? If the urban youth actually took advantage of such programs it would be so much better. Instead of being out on the streets or dealing with gangs, they could be doin this shit. And hip hop is involved so there's a general interest.

As for the second site, it just voices many good opinions on this world. That's what people can become, if they would take part of such programs as above. If they would take part :rolleyes:

Some things are being done to help the urban youth but they don't take advantage of it. Although it should be common sense knowledge, to people unaware of this shit it's just like "What? Colleges have radio stations? :eek: " Yes you fool, we got radio stations. Listen and learn to real music, suckas..

Cosby is doing a great service to the nation as a WHOLE. However, I think he should focus more on what those caught up in this vicious cycle can do to get out of it. Learn to be responsible with your money. I went to the middleschool with a very large percent of the students coming from families on welfare. I come from a pretty well to do area, yet these kids wore much more expensive clothes than me, they had extravagant allowances ($15-$30 a week? for an 11 year old? Come on!), and wore gold necklaces.

Vicious Cycle. Good way of describing it. Like that Northern State song :p this world is a goddamn vicious cycle with all the shit that goes on..

I just edited this to say. It is funny how us broke motherfuckers (as in anyone 'urban') will see a shirt, like Ecko, and go, "$30? That's cheap."

Then we go into a grocery store and see a sandwich that costs $4 and we're like, "Hell no man, I ain't got $ to spend on that expensive shit!"

:rolleyes:

But we got to rock that shit :cool: just cause. Haha. It is true tho that more people need to save their $, but...think of it this way. When you've had nothing your entire childhood and you finally start making some $ later on in life (like for me, at 17)..you buy all the shit you've always wanted but could never have. I never got Christmas/birthday presents until 4th grade (aside from one year when I was born), I got a $30 lego set from my mom and we had to keep it a secret from my dad cause if he found out we spent that much $, he'd be outraged and go crazy. I had to hide the lego set under my bed and shit...oy. And even since then I never got much $ for holidays. Not near as much as what other people get. I don't see how people can be affording to buy they kids like $400 worth of shit for a holiday. Most I get now is like $60..

So yea, it's hard to control your $ when you never got to get what you wanted, you know? Lots of people I know, all we got to show for years of working is like $5, cause it goes towards bills, food, you know, all the necessary shit, and them our clothing/jewelry/CDs/etc. I don't buy jewelry but you know how it is. A lot of people I know got horrible credit cause they're broke and can't pay bills on time. They're good people too, believe me. White and black. It's just a shame (most of the people I know don't go to college. Some I know are actually just going to college right now, and two of them are 25 and 29)..but most of them just graduated high school and started working retail jobs till, well, now. It sucks.

But anyways, a lot of people who are broke as hell and got urban brands (which are all expensive, most at least. Hey, Southpole is cheap) have food stamps as well, so that helps out. I'm going to apply for some this fall or next fall, depending on when I move out. And some of my friends think it's funny (then again they know how much of a dump my living environment has been, I'm talking more about inside the house considering we live in a nice neighborhood without break-ins for a change..long story, going off-topic) but most don't cause they're in the same position. People are so concerned about gettin $ first, like unemployment checks, that they don't care to remember (or bother) that it takes away from their social security $ later on or whatever.

I could go on for paragraphs more, needless to say, so I'll stop here and since I got to go to work in a few hours (and then a few days off WHOO..damn I need $)..too bad people just cannot INVEST THEIR $ WISELY. NOT in gambling all the goddamn time on every goddamn basketball game HAHA. That's how some of us get our $ here (not me..)..it's really tough to save $ up and not spend it for everyone in general. But yea, people who grow up in the urban environment, well..we're used to it, but sometimes we'll want things to take our minds off the shit we're in. That will help. Like for me, it's music. I buy tons and tons and tons of CDs. Half my paychecks go towards CDs. Others, alcohol, weed, you know. People got to have the weed. So yea. Too bad the world will not change from this anytime soon, if ever.

My husband and I discussed this extensively the other day on our trip back from Vegas.
I have come to this conclusion. Poverty is a sad and horrible way to have to grow up. Many people in this situation do become products of their enviroment. However, there are those who don't. Many don't, although it seems like they are the minority. I feel Cosby's statement came across slightly stereotypical but at the same time HE is at least seeing part of the problem. American society is in big trouble. However, this is not just a black problem. It is a people problem in general. There is good and bad in every race, creed and color in this country.Lack of decent jobs, absentee fathers, teen-age pregnancy this is just a small portion of why so many are poor.
In the early days of my married life I lived on 28th street in Las Vegas. This, at the time was one of the most ghetto poverty stricken areas in the city.
We lived there because rent was cheap and it was close to his job.
Anyway, what I saw day in and day out made me wise up a bit about the world we live in. People taking their welfare checks and blowing em on anything but the essentials. Drugs being sold right in front of our apartment complex. Going to sleep by the sound of gunshots everynight was a real eye-opener for me. The majority of the gang members in this area were mexican and white! It made more sense to them to sell drugs and guns to support themselves as opposed to working for minimum wage at McDonalds. As I said there is no such thing as a predominately black,white, asian, mexican etc, etc. poverty problem. Poverty does not discriminate.
My own family was very hard-up until just recently. By the time we'd buy food and pay bills for the month I was lucky there was enough gas money for him to go back and forth to work on. I lived like this for alot of years. It was a depressing sad situation that took its toll on my marriage and my mental health. We were on foodstamps when my husband was unemployed and we had a baby on the way. I lived in subsidized housing because the only job my husband could get paid $7 an hour part-time. I could not work because child care cost more than what I would be making. We were honest "white" people trying to make a living in a small community we felt would be a better place to raise out children.
We live in a town that has under 6,000 people in it. Suprisingly, the drug problem here is huge. Again, there are those people who would rather deal drugs than work a minimum wage job. |Prescription drugs are the big one, meth coming in a close second. We've had about 4 major busts in the past 6 months.
Then we have the teenage pregnancy problem.It is totally a tragedy, I swear these kids have never heard the words abstinence or condom. So many single moms and babies' without caring Dads. If they don't pay child support the girls go on welfare to support themselves and the kids. We have three govt subsidized apartment complexes here. They are full at all times and the waiting list is huge yet our town council won't let any new industry come in. That is something I just don't get? In order to improve an impoverished community, real jobs and opportunities need to exist. MCDonald's and Arby's just isn't gonna cut it when a person can make more dealing drugs or living off welfare.
The only industry in this town is the state prison where half the town works and the other half is miners. Mining has a history of being very unstable. When they close(it usually lasts about 5 to 10 years a cycle) we'lll be in an economic slump once again. It has been a vicious cycle since the founding of our town. If it hadn't been for the prison, where my hubby is employed at, this place would be a ghost town after the last mine shut down about 6 years ago.
As I said before poverty is sad and a very horrible way to live but it is everywhere. From teeny tiny towns to metropolitan areas.This goes sooo beyond being just an inner city problem or a black man's curse.
While Cosby's comments were poignant I think he did a poor job addressing the issue of poverty in general.

I think everyone can learn from what Cosby said- so though he focuses what he says on black people, I think anyone can take it and learn from it.

For example, many of the posts in this thread.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2103794/?GT1=4244

Bill Cosby
America's granddad gets ornery.
By Debra Dickerson
Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 11:22 AM PT



Lately, Bill Cosby has been making a comeback—as Shelby Steele. The 67-year-old comedian—who became America's Dad in the 1980s and America's Granddad more recently—has launched a series of surprising assaults on the pathologies of low-income blacks. "They think they're hip. They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere," he said in Chicago at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition and Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference on July 1.

This followed an attack launched at the NAACP's Brown v. Board of Education 50th anniversary gala at Constitution Hall in Washington, D.C., in May. No laugh tracks there. The Cos has chastised young black men for "beating up your women because you can't find a job," blasted poor parenting in the ghettoes, heaped scorn on Ebonics, and lambasted aimless blacks for squandering the hard-won gains of the civil rights movement. Symbolically, he made his comments in high-profile "public" (read: where whites could hear) venues.

Many critics expressed shock that the beloved figure of Americana—the genial observational humorist; the wise paterfamilias of the beloved The Cosby Show (1984-1992); the winner of the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2002—should offer such a pointed, and conservative, political message. Yet those who were fooled by Cosby's silliness into surprise at his newfound ferocity were just that—fooled. Cosby has long been a good "race" man on an all-too-serious mission. There was always darkness in the Cos' light.

From humble beginnings in the projects of Philadelphia, raised by a domestic and a laborer, Cosby parlayed his impish nature and keen insights into the transcendent in daily life into a successful comedy career during the early 1960s heyday of stand-up. In 1963, he was chosen as the first black guest host of The Tonight Show and in 1965 as the first black star on a white drama. On I Spy, he and Robert Culp played intelligence agents gone undercover as an international tennis player and coach. Overnight Cosby became the "Jackie Robinson of television," a crucial figure in bringing unapologetic but unconfrontational blackness into the mainstream.

It is almost impossible now to convey the watershed I Spy represented in American life. Those were the days when blacks called each other in wonderment to make sure that no one missed seeing one of their own in America's public square. That Cosby's "Scotty" was an abstemious, multilingual Rhodes Scholar and devoted family man while Culp's "Kelly" was a womanizing boozehound from the wrong side of the tracks was no accident. Cosby himself lobbied to make Scotty the brains of the outfit, the one who traveled the world and tended to national security matters.

Nonradical elements of the black community always embraced strategic racial inroads like this as exactly the type of gains they were trying to make—securing a place at the table instead of dismantling the table. Radicals like the Black Panthers, socialists, and Amiri Baraka, of course, considered Cosby a sell-out—a judgment for which his recent comments merely provide them the final proof.

Once Cosby found the upward path, he worked hard to stay there and to help bring the race along with him. His philosophy was always to play by the rules so as to beat the master at his own game—to be clearly black-identified, but not, you know, militant about it. Like that of Nat King Cole, Flip Wilson, and Diahann Carroll, television's other black pioneers, Cosby's appeal lay in presenting the universality of black life "apolitically," on its own terms (or, if you're Amiri Baraka, in the least discomforting way possible for whites). Their sudden presence in public life was all the rebuke that pre-Civil Rights Act America could face.

But Cosby's critics are wrong to say Cosby is either "incognegro" or an appeaser. The man always had a plan. While his humor is nonconfrontational, his attitude has been anything but; like Oprah Winfrey and Magic Johnson's inner-city focused business empire, Cosby sees the acquisition of power as a civil rights strategy. He's worked to be in the meetings where decisions are made rather than outside picketing them, though he was an ardent supporter of the civil rights movement and used his shows to pay homage to it.

And he succeeded. Once his star took off, Cosby was rarely without either a sitcom, a game show, an animated series, best selling non-fiction, or a comedy album riding the top of the charts. His power allowed him, among many other good deeds, to support black higher education by donating millions to schools, sending deserving, hardscrabble youngsters he'd read about in the newspaper to college, and challenging universities to ambitious fundraising goals by offering generous matching funds of his own—facts he's been advertising in a PR counteroffensive after the harsh reaction his recent comments provoked.

So why now? Why is Bill Cosby suddenly so sour, so publicly? Perhaps it was watching one of his four daughters struggle with a drug habit in the 1980s. Perhaps it was losing his only son, Ennis, to random violence in 1997. (Ghouls click here for a guide to the murder site.) Perhaps it was having to acknowledge having cheated on his wife of 40 years, Camille, who is nearly as beloved by blacks as he is. To make matters worse, the news of this infidelity broke when a young woman tried to extort hush money from him, and he helped the FBI send his (probable) love child to prison. But perhaps the final straw was watching Eddie Murphy reprise his history-making I Spy role on the big screen in 2002, not as a jet-setting, high-minded patriot but as a jive-talking, barely literate boxer who couldn't care less about national security; Cosby has long been vocal in his disgust with what he sees as the minstrelsy, vulgarity, and low artistic value of modern black comedy, film, and television. Don't even get him started on rap music.

"I'm a tired man," he said recently, but he wasn't talking about the energy required to defend himself. He was talking about still fighting battles his generation thought would have been long won by now, and he's talking about how draining it is to watch black complacency with its pockets of stagnation. But true acolytes will recognize the Cos' own personal progression through the stages of life, territory he just about owns. One of Cosby's standards bits was in ribbing his mother for coddling her grandchildren after having been so tough on her children. "That's not the same woman that raised me," he'd claim in mock confusion. Watching our beloved Cos take his people so publicly to the woodshed, it's our turn now to marvel at the evolution of the man we thought we knew so well.

As I said before poverty is sad and a very horrible way to live but it is everywhere. From teeny tiny towns to metropolitan areas.This goes sooo beyond being just an inner city problem or a black man's curse.
While Cosby's comments were poignant I think he did a poor job addressing the issue of poverty in general.

Poverty does go far beyond the inner city or the black man's curse. Cosby wasn't addressing poverty in general, though. He was addressing the priorities of African Americans in today's society.

Yeah...people forget about people who live in trailer parks/the country. They have it pretty bad too, but somewhat not as bad as inner city people since the bills are much higher there and there's bills for water and stuff (unlike in the country)..ghetto country people don't make as much as inner city peoples but the crime is less somewhat.

Simply put, poverty sucks for all races/nationalities.

Personally, I think that part of the problem lies in the fact that certain aspects of black culture seem to glorify this sort of mess. Look at rap music, for example. While rappers are "telling it like it is," they are also showing how women get beat up and kids get left behind and how rims and cash are the way to happiness. What if the people who had died for the sake of the civil rights movement had seen what would become of some people who used their new opportunity to, like Machinehead said, buy a new DVD player and speakers? If you watch mtv(and i beg of you, do that as little as possible;)) you'll see rappers in interviews talking about how they don't actually do any of the shit that they talk about. Its just a facade to sell records from. Do you think that they got to the top of the rap industry by slapping their wives around, shooting people, making drug deals and otherwise being a failure to the people around them? Of course not. They had to work late at night and sleep in the studio and do endless promotions and sleep in cars to get where they are now.

Furthermore, while people are certainly "trapped" at the bottom of the system, they can certainly make a difference to their family by working hard and providing them with good values like loyalty, strong work ethic, being level-headed, fairness, and respect. Even if they don't get out of povery by themselves, they can certainly raise children who will grow up with those values instilled in them from an early age and make a serious difference in the next generation.




By the way, when I listen to "Straight out of Compton" or "Fuck the Police" I don't actually take anything that they're saying seriously. I think some of its funny and i take it with a grain of salt, knowing that these guys are trying to make money selling an image and not displaying a productive way of life. The problem comes when people actually take it seriously.....

Actually, a lot of rappers who are "telling it like it is" don't exactly beat up their girls and leave their kids behind...a lot of them take care of their kids but don't exactly like they baby mama haha. Like Young Buck of G-Unit is taking care of his daughter and really loves her (to break the stereotype that people have of G-Unit being complete morons with no heart and stuff. Most of G-Unit is smart and can rhyme, just not 50! He's smart for being motivated for not smoking and drinking and waking up at like 6 am to work, but in the gangsta world and him being categorzied as a gangsta rapper and in that genre, that's considered being a pussy).

If people who had died for the sake of the civil rights movement could see today's world, of course they'd be outraged. But with time comes progression, even if it's wack changes. Just the way it is. There ain't nothin wrong with havin some nice rims, but people just need to learn to buy them after bills and debt it mostly paid off. Forget them spinners too..

About the rappers in interviews on MTV sayin they fake. Some of them have said they came from dealing drugs and thinking life wouldn't get better, that they wanted to be the best hustler on they block, but once they got shot and stuff, realized that hustlin wasn't the way to go. It's really too risky and that's why so many rappers lose friends/fam, due to all that violence. It does sell records in a sense tho. G-Unit, actually...some people think they gangsta (since 4 out of the 5 members have been shot at least twice) but it's mostly white people, mostly white females who think that. Just about everyone black (most) is aware that G-Unit is fake. Not that Banks, Buck, Yayo, and Game can't rhyme, but seriously, it's more of Banks and 50 that's fake. They're real somewhat but I don't need to go any more off-topic with this to explain. But yeah, rappers live off that shit to sell records. "I been shot 9 times." Supposed to be real but we all know the truth. Back then it was like, "Damn"...these days no one really cares.

While people are "trapped" at the bottom of the system, they usually are products of their own environment. They're not always taught the proper values in life...that's why some people look at other races like they suck, like they should be the only race existent. But then again, some people do learn the difference between right and wrong and will vow to raise their child someday differently than how they was raised, so that maybe their kid won't have drug abusing parents. It's a good thing when they make sure they won't become what their brother/sister/friends/parents/etc. was while growing up, when they made bad choices in life, the wrong turn in life.

As for the NWA comment. Personally I take it as both serious and funny, cause some of the lyrics is meant to be that way. It's just dope shit. With "Fuck The Police" they're talking about police brutality. It's existent in every hood and it really sucks. While I'm not a victim of it I know people who have been like my father, and police will lie and make up shit just to piss you off, then the problem is if you get attacked for "some reason," if you fight back it's considered resisting arrest/attacking an officer, so you'll be the one to get in trouble moreso if they don't have any evidence (which will pretty much appear over time with witnesses mainly). "Straight Outta Compton" they're reppin where they from. A lot of people do this shit (ie the return of 213, their area code being their group name). They're sayin people lie and say they from Compton when they've never even stepped foot in Compton. They're talkin about people who front...frontin will catch up with you eventually and you'll pay the price. They're just talkin about the west coast gangsta life which is of course different than us (east). Some of the songs is just like...you hear them and you get a smile on your face cause it's classic shit that you remember from awhile back. Like "Express Yourself"..simple as that.