National ID Card

Llywelyn · 04-15-2004, 05:23 AM

The issue of a national ID card has been increasingly encroaching into the public mindset. This is a worrisome issue and one that I am fighting against, because it is exactly the kind of thing our legislature thinks will make us more secure and will get them reelected without actually increasing our security.

Security expert Bruce Schneier had this very insightful article about it:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4698350.html

Quote:

As a security technologist, I regularly encounter people who say the United States should adopt a national ID card. How could such a program not make us more secure, they ask?

The suggestion, when it's made by a thoughtful civic-minded person like Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times, often takes on a tone that is regretful and ambivalent: Yes, indeed, the card would be a minor invasion of our privacy, and undoubtedly it would add to the growing list of interruptions and delays we encounter every day; but we live in dangerous times, we live in a new world....

It all sounds so reasonable, but there's a lot to disagree with in such an attitude.

The potential privacy encroachments of an ID card system are far from minor. And the interruptions and delays caused by incessant ID checks could easily proliferate into a persistent traffic jam in office lobbies and airports and hospital waiting rooms and shopping malls.

But my primary objection isn't the totalitarian potential of national IDs, nor the likelihood that they'll create a whole immense new class of social and economic dislocations. Nor is it the opportunities they will create for colossal boondoggles by government contractors. My objection to the national ID card, at least for the purposes of this essay, is much simpler.

It won't work. It won't make us more secure.

In fact, everything I've learned about security over the last 20 years tells me that once it is put in place, a national ID card program will actually make us less secure.

My argument may not be obvious, but it's not hard to follow, either. It centers around the notion that security must be evaluated not based on how it works, but on how it fails.

It doesn't really matter how well an ID card works when used by the hundreds of millions of honest people that would carry it. What matters is how the system might fail when used by someone intent on subverting that system: how it fails naturally, how it can be made to fail, and how failures might be exploited.

The first problem is the card itself. No matter how unforgeable we make it, it will be forged. And even worse, people will get legitimate cards in fraudulent names.

Two of the 9/11 terrorists had valid Virginia driver's licenses in fake names. And even if we could guarantee that everyone who issued national ID cards couldn't be bribed, initial cardholder identity would be determined by other identity documents... all of which would be easier to forge.

Not that there would ever be such thing as a single ID card. Currently about 20 percent of all identity documents are lost per year. An entirely separate security system would have to be developed for people who lost their card, a system that itself is capable of abuse.

Additionally, any ID system involves people... people who regularly make mistakes. We all have stories of bartenders falling for obviously fake IDs, or sloppy ID checks at airports and government buildings. It's not simply a matter of training; checking IDs is a mind-numbingly boring task, one that is guaranteed to have failures. Biometrics such as thumbprints show some promise here, but bring with them their own set of exploitable failure modes.

But the main problem with any ID system is that it requires the existence of a database. In this case it would have to be an immense database of private and sensitive information on every American -- one widely and instantaneously accessible from airline check-in stations, police cars, schools, and so on.

The security risks are enormous. Such a database would be a kludge of existing databases; databases that are incompatible, full of erroneous data, and unreliable. As computer scientists, we do not know how to keep a database of this magnitude secure, whether from outside hackers or the thousands of insiders authorized to access it.

And when the inevitable worms, viruses, or random failures happen and the database goes down, what then? Is America supposed to shut down until it's restored?

Proponents of national ID cards want us to assume all these problems, and the tens of billions of dollars such a system would cost -- for what? For the promise of being able to identify someone?

What good would it have been to know the names of Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber, or the DC snipers before they were arrested? Palestinian suicide bombers generally have no history of terrorism. The goal is here is to know someone's intentions, and their identity has very little to do with that.

And there are security benefits in having a variety of different ID documents. A single national ID is an exceedingly valuable document, and accordingly there's greater incentive to forge it. There is more security in alert guards paying attention to subtle social cues than bored minimum-wage guards blindly checking IDs.

That's why, when someone asks me to rate the security of a national ID card on a scale of one to 10, I can't give an answer. It doesn't even belong on a scale.

Syd · 04-15-2004, 07:18 AM

I guess I'm not seeing how something that like would be very helpful. I carry my drivers license. It's legit. I think that's enough. A card like that, which WOULD be forged, would just be a gigantic waste of everyone's money.

Fairy.org · 04-15-2004, 07:55 AM

This is almost like in that movie.. where we all get barcodes implanted in our skin :|

I agree with Syd, I have my license, so that is about it.

Sarah · 04-15-2004, 08:01 AM

Driver's Licences are enough. If this place gets weirder I am going to Canada.

Fairy.org · 04-15-2004, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by college_sarah2003

Driver's Licences are enough. If this place gets weirder I am going to Canada.

I am with Sarah.. but, doesn't it say 'national?"

Diamon · 04-15-2004, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by college_sarah2003

Driver's Licences are enough. If this place gets weirder I am going to Canada.

Problem is unless you're behind the whell of a car you aren't required to have a drivers license. Not saying I supposed a national ID card, but drivers licenses aren't mandatory (which I belive the proposed cards would be, so they don't fit the bill).

Fairy.org · 04-15-2004, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamon

Problem is unless you're behind the whell of a car you aren't required to have a drivers license. Not saying I supposed a national ID card, but drivers licenses aren't mandatory (which I belive the proposed cards would be, so they don't fit the bill).

Then why not just make that the reason for all people to get a license? This just seems as one more thing to 'control'

Llywelyn · 04-15-2004, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamon

Problem is unless you're behind the whell of a car you aren't required to have a drivers license. Not saying I supposed a national ID card, but drivers licenses aren't mandatory (which I belive the proposed cards would be, so they don't fit the bill).

It is called a "State ID" and everyone can and often does get one. Your driver's license is a State ID + Driving Privileges. You can get a State ID without the Driving Privileges just as easy.

You aren't required to have one, no, but you can get one.

Fairy.org · 04-15-2004, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llywelyn

It is called a "State ID" and everyone can and often does get one. Your driver's license is a State ID + Driving Privileges. You can get a State ID without the Driving Privileges just as easy.

You aren't required to have one, no, but you can get one.

Then, the only difference is that it will be mandatory?

MetalRepublican · 04-15-2004, 08:34 AM

Hello everyone,

we have this in place already and they utilize it enough. It is called your social security number. To prove a point. I recieved a letter from an attorney's office from CA yesterday informing me of my rights to participate in a class action lawsuit in an incident that took place 20 years ago. I have moved 8 times since then. It had to be the SSN. Lets play follow the number and not the card. A national ID card will do nothing but create paperwork that needs to be shifted through in time of need. Screw the card and issue everyone a little old lady with a heavy purse. That will be just as effective.

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04-15-2004, 07:18 AM	National ID Card Post #2
Syd Visible Sin Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Little Rock, AR Age: 36 Posts: 1,218 Points: 20,119.30 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 20,119.30 Donate	I guess I'm not seeing how something that like would be very helpful. I carry my drivers license. It's legit. I think that's enough. A card like that, which WOULD be forged, would just be a gigantic waste of everyone's money.

04-15-2004, 07:55 AM	National ID Card Post #3
Fairy.org Member of the Banned PERMA BANNED Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In Brandon's bed. Age: 27 Posts: 736 Points: 286.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 286.00 Donate	This is almost like in that movie.. where we all get barcodes implanted in our skin :\| I agree with Syd, I have my license, so that is about it.

04-15-2004, 08:01 AM	National ID Card Post #4
Sarah Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Teh Stupid Georgia! Age: 30 Posts: 197 Points: 5,153.63 Bank: 332.31 Total Points: 5,485.94 Donate	Driver's Licences are enough. If this place gets weirder I am going to Canada.

04-15-2004, 08:34 AM	National ID Card Post #10
MetalRepublican Glad to be back Join Date: Mar 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 1,596 Points: 4,312.92 Bank: 283.90 Total Points: 4,596.82 Donate	Hello everyone, we have this in place already and they utilize it enough. It is called your social security number. To prove a point. I recieved a letter from an attorney's office from CA yesterday informing me of my rights to participate in a class action lawsuit in an incident that took place 20 years ago. I have moved 8 times since then. It had to be the SSN. Lets play follow the number and not the card. A national ID card will do nothing but create paperwork that needs to be shifted through in time of need. Screw the card and issue everyone a little old lady with a heavy purse. That will be just as effective.

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National ID Card

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National ID Card