Elias

MTA negotiators have offered 3% raises. The Transportation Workers Union is holding out for 8%. New York Transit workers make $47,000 to $55,000 per year without overtime. Meanwhile, they are on strike illegally. They face daily fines for each worker and a $1 Million per day fine for the union for striking by court order.

Should Governor Pataki be MORE or LESS tolerant of this illegal strike?

Cfw828

Of course, he is less tolerant since he's against it.

But ask any transit worker about this illegal strike and they'll be like "So."

Unions, much as they're guaranteed a certain amount of pay for their work, seem to get shitted on all over this city even if they are doing the city public service (sometimes from members of the government and more from their customers). Transit workers, teachers, and worst of all, the underpaid and even after 9-11 the underappreciated NYPD (the good members of them, of course)

Even though Mr. Pataki is not obliged to do so, this whole illegal strike Taylor Law applies to state law and therefore, sensing that there was a looming strike, Mr. Pataki could have at least tried to mediate in the hours leading to the deadline but he let them go on because he put what he said were capable people in those positions.

Sure Mr. Pataki has a state to run, but with $400 million dollars in revenue at stake a day for the city/state and much more since it's the Christmas season, he had an opportunity to try to stop this from happening and he didn't.

Mike Bloomberg, while the Taylor Law is a state law, could have done the same thing and helped moderate since it is the city that's affected, but he ALSO did nothing.

As mentioned by a member of the State Representatives, this situation is something that Pataki has to get into and "get his hands dirty".

Instead of doing that "it's illegal to do this it's illegal to do this"...yeah, and?

Again, clearly the idea that this is illegal is not and has not stopped the TWU from doing this. I don't necessarily feel that they were pushed to do this, but if they're willing to give up 2 days pay each member for every day this happens along with $1 mil. for the union every day then there is a LOT wrong.

The TWU, like it or not, knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they were striking this close to the Christmas holiday.

I don't expect this to last more than a week, but then again, I didn't expect it to happen in the first place.

The one thing I DO expect to happen is a fare hike by the late summer-early fall of next year. Everybody has lost in this situation.

TheLady

Don't forget that they JUST raised our fare 33% last year (from $1.50 to $2.00)

So, the MTA gets about 33% more coming in. They proudly proclaimed, just one month ago, they had a billion dollar surplus, and gave New Yorkers the savings by giving riders from all lines, including the LIRR, free passes and reduced fares. Then, exactly 2 days before the contract ended, the MTA signed away whatever surplus they had left into rehabilition projects. Good for us engineers, but that left them with no surplus.

So, then they go and tell the TWU they have no money to give them.

3 years ago, since we were in a recession, the TWU avoided a strike by settling for cash bonuses every year. They amounted to $3000 to $4000 per employee over the course of the 3 years. So, doing the math, assuming $50K per employee, that was about 6% to 8% of their salary, which is about a 2%+/- raise each year.

So, this year the MTA proudly proclaims it has a surplus, which it spends right before contracts are up. It wants to only give employees 3% each year, even though they raised fares 33%.How much has the cost of living gone up the past few years? Gas, milk, bread, even taxes have been raised by more than 10%. In some cases, prices for necessities have doubled.

Now, onto the TWU. 8% is ridiculous. I don't care who you are, you don't get an 8% raise, which would amount to a 26% raise after 3 years. That is insane. The MTA also wants new TWU employees to start paying for their healcare at a "whopping" 1%. The TWU is against this. This seems perfectly fair. They are not asking exisitng employess to start paying for it, just new hires. And, having to give only 1% of your pay towards healthcare, we should all be so lucky. Just like the cost of living has gone up, so has the cost of healthcare, and the workers should have to contribute. The MTA wants to raise the retirement with full benefits age from 55 to 62. Again, this is fair. We are all living longer now, and to let someone retire at 55 with full benefits is very draining. this, again, would only apply to new hires, not existing employees.

The TWU also wants the MTA to reduce penalties filed against workers. I say, if they are doing something they are not supposed to be doing, fine them, or suspend them. That is their job, and if they are not doing it well, they jeopardize every person who rides mass transit.

So, those are the main issues.

Now, onto the main players. Roger Toussaint is the head of the TWU local 100. He is out there on the picket lines today and refusing to go back to the bargaining table. Today, the state offered mediators, which he refused. One must wonder if he does want to keep striking, since he seems more intent on making his point than making this go away.

Mayor Bloomber and Governor Pataki are both using very strong words. Big Whoop. they have yet to flex any muscle, instead running to the courts to get penalty fines imposed. The international TWu has stated they do not approve of Toussaint or his strike, and said they would have continued negotiating.

However, if the TWU did not go on strike, it would have looked like they were just bluffing, and nothin ever would have gotten resolved.

So, in short, well i guess it's too late for that, this is all a giant pissing contest. Toussaint obviously doesn't have the best interest of his workers in mind. And, as the strike goes on, more and more workers will start crossing picket lines. pataki and Bloomberg could have done more to intervene before the strike started. The TWU worked for 4 days without a contract as a show of good faith.

Cfw828

Oh shit, they just showed workers from the police union showing their support for the MTA...no surprise I guess, but this is going to really start a legal battle dealing with the Taylor Law.

The point they were trying to make was how long do any of these public workers have to wait without a contract. Since they're under the same law, they see no difference between the both of them.

That doesn't mean that they're going to strike necessarily, but this strike could start a Domino effect of union battles.

Elias

Should the surpluses from increased fares have NOT gone for capital improvements? It sounds more and more to me like the TWU is the unreasonable party in this dispute. It seems to me that they are the ones not bargaining in good faith here. If they have taken their demands to management and management has countered reasonably then there should be no need for what is going on now. Especially in light of its illegality. I was not aware that the surplus was committed but it makes sense that it would be. I doubt that a public service like that could legally raise fares that much in New York without a comprehensive plan on how the money was going to be used. I doubt it was ever intended to sit in a pot to divvy up to employees. I wonder if the MTA shouldn't have done a much better job of educating people about how that money was going to be used. It sounds like they may have dropped the ball in allowing expectations to get too high. But I only know what I'm told on here and by the media. The media never makes these issues clear to those of us who don't live in NYC. Thanks for your insight.

Cfw828

It looks like public opinion is already starting to go the MTA's way.

The longer this goes, the worse the reaction will be to the TWU.

Looking at some of the interviews with people you could see the reactions on their faces and hear the desperation in their voices.

For those of you who don't live in New York City or even New York State, this affects you as well.

An interesting statistic...if New York City were a separate country from the rest of the United States, it would have the 10th highest economy in the world.

This will affect people financially all over the country, the longer that this strike goes. This country's economic base is consumer shopping and consumer shopping has gone down as far as 90% in one section of the city.

This is something that everybody should put their eyes on.

etherealprey

The media and Bloomberg and Pataki are pretty much trying to paint the TWU as the bad guys in this. Though I'm all for standing up for what you believe in, both parties need to grow up a little here. Name calling and hissy fits are for 3 year olds.
However in negotiating, you always ask for more than you want, because you know at the table that number you ask for is going to go down, so they probably don't want the 8%, they want a number lower than that but you never go in with your real number, that's just crazy. (3 years in a law firm taught me that and a few other things)
But now it seems that the TWU is just coming down to one thing. Pension. Why can't the MTA meet them on one point? Where is this 1 billion surplus anyways? Why am I paying 2.00 to ride the train?
But anyways NYC is moving along, it always does, no one's really suffering, there's a lot of inconvience and hassle yes, but no one is truly suffering, a lot of bitching going on yes, but that's it.
Look at what the common man can do with the power of demonstration? If I were in the TWU I'd be out there driving ppl around the city, going, see the MTA don't wanna pay me or give me a reason to stay, so i'm just gonna drive ppl around just to stick it to them.

But I love how the media goes the homeless ppl have no where to go now that the subways are closed. That's lovely. And if anyone says illegal one more time I'm shove an eggplant up their butt and show them MY commute to school!

Katya

I've been watching this ever since it happened. I was supposed to work for two and a half weeks in NYC starting after New Year's. The job fell through, but I'm still watching it.

If I was still going to work in NYC, I would still be chewing my nails. I would be able to take Metro-North into Grand Central, but then I would be stuck from there. Usually I would take the S over to Times Square, change to the NRW line, and ride that to the nearest stop to my building. The subway part alone takes 20-25 minutes. It is not a walking distance. I cannot afford a cab every day. I'm afraid of driving in NYC but they're not allowing any cars with fewer than four passengers into the city anyway. So, in other words, I would be completely screwed.

I understand that they want to make a point. I understand that they want something better. But they're saying that they're trying to help the working people when it's the working people they're hurting the most. I heard a story about a long line of people just walking over I believe the GW Bridge to get to work because they couldn't get there otherwise.

And now you guys are saying that the guy in charge won't go to bargain. I agree that an 8% raise is much too high, but wouldn't they shoot for something high in the bargaining process in order to get down to a genuinely fair price in the negotiations? That would make sense to me, but this guy is only prolonging everyone's problems with his own agenda.

I'm all for fairness, and normally I would support them for standing up for their rights, but these guys aren't thinking about the people they're really hurting. Right now, I'm on the side of MTA. You're right that the TWU seems like the unfair party more and more.

They picked a nasty time of year to do this. Here's hoping that they'll settle this soon.

TheLady

So, last night, walking about 30 blocks, i was discussing this with some coworkers. it was amazing how many strangers chimed into the conversation as we were walking. Everyone has their own opinion.

The average TWU worker makes 60K a year when overtime is factored in. Most of these workers did not go to college. How many people are lucky enough to make 60K a year without having a college degree? But, is that really the point? How much they make should not be a factor in how much of a raise they get. They have a tailored a lifestyle to that salary, and it should be maintained.

One issue is pension. They MTA currently takes 2% of the salary towards that. now, they want 6%. Companies now very rarely give pensions, and instead make you invest in a 401 K. The union is trying to protect that, which I can understand.

George Pataki today said he will not provide a mediator for the talks until the strike is over. he is talking about arresting Toussaint and others on the TWU executive board. The TWU international is saying they don't approve of the strike, which apparently is going to be aired in a commercial with the MTA president. In this commercial, he is pleading with TWU employees to come back to work, or face fines and possible jail. If they have the money to make and air these commercials, they should be using it for the workers.

The "Transportation Bill" was just approved. That brings billions of dollars to the NYMTA for capital improvements, including the Second Avenue Subway, the LIRR Third Rail, the extension of the 7 train to the West Side.


What I see happening is both sides are requesting very large changes. That always happens in the beginning of contract negotiations. But, neither side is really willing to back down from these unreasonable demands this time around.

The TWU wants 8% a year. 4-5% seems reasonable. The MTA wants to raise retirement from 55 to 62. Why such a large number? they should, perhaps, say raise it to 58 this time, maybe 60 in 6 years. They want 6% to go towards pension. Why not 4% this time. These large sweeping changes the MTA wants are making the union angry. And, they are not willing to back down from them.

Toussaint needs to get off the picket line and back into negotiations. While most people saw the strike as somewhat amusing the first day, we are all quickly becoming angry about it. And yes, the TWU looks worse and worse as the days go on. But, if they back down now, they will not be taken seriously in any negotiations.

Like I said before, both sides need to be working together to come to a contract agreement. Neither one seems interested in doing that right now, but seem more interesting in pointing fingers and making threats.

Cfw828

Looks like the strike, at least in principle, is over.

TWU leaders are voting on whether to end the strike and it looks like the leaders have recommended that the workers go back to work.

Although, the stations are not going to get back up right away. After the strike is officially over, they're going to need at least 12-18 hours to work and inspect the subway system when they're done.