At first I did as well.
But then I thought, that no matter what, each album
is going to be different.
As the way Amy puts it, when each album is complete, its
another chapter finished, and then go's on to the next one.
I just Love Fallen, but then again its awesome to have something
different, because you don'r really want to hear something the same as
before.
Each song is very different, and tells its very own story. (IMO)
thats why I love each song, and they are all so unique.

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Always Believe In Your Self!!!

There are things I really liked about TOD and things I don't like. I don't hate it. But it's certainly not an album I will place up there with my favourites. I think the music is definitely not life changing. When I first heard Fallen, it changed my life forever. Really it did. Up to that point in my life I had never heard anything like it...and from there came my great love for metal etc. but TOD.....the lyrics are not up to standard. Really...I was searching for a lot in the lyrics and didn't find it. Plus I don't like the arrangements, it's just not metal in my opinion. Not at all. It's more alternative rock. And I agree that the vocal effects on TOD are not effective. I like Amy's real voice. I think the music on TOD can work for teens or so (?) but...seriously...if you're over a certain age goodness knows what age but yeah I doubt it will have any appeal whatsoever.

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*___My fall will be for you_____*

I got the impression that they were trying much too hard to break away from 'Fallen', so much so that they became obsessed by it. I felt like 'Sweet Sacrifice' was the new 'Going Under', 'Weight Of The World' was the new 'Everybody's Fool', 'Lithium' was the new 'My Immortal' etc, except they were inferior hollow knock-offs. I don't think that really helped when everyone would be thinking of TOD in relation to Fallen.

TOD seems too self-indulgent as well, and the drama surrounding Amy's alleged ego seems to reinforce this. I can't relate to any of the songs, except for Lithium (which I think is a great description of depression) and Lacrymosa (but that was a given because of the screaming choir!!). I was also disappointed by the lack of choir and how TOD just didn't seem as heavy as Fallen. And like people have said before, since we can't relate to it, there's no soul to the album. I definitely agree with how the lyrics seem to be repetitive, as do the subjects of the songs... why are we fans the enemy in WOTW? Thanks a lot things like that make it kind of hard to feel sympathetic!!

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I'm supposed to be weak.

Who the fuck are these Emo-nescence people you speak of???

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Kids say no to drugs!!!!!!! drugs are bad mmmmmmmmkay!!!!

I think this might be my first post on this forum, even though i've been on here for quite a while... i just get updates from the forum on email... i've since moved on to nightwish and that was a while ago too... hehe.

anyway, sister spooky's thread that was moved here got my attention. on why some of us really dont like TOD. I've always wondered why most ev fans think the album is good too.. hehe. so i thought i'd give my opinion on the album.

i was quite anticipating the album... i loved fallen, loved amy lee, loved the haunting voice, the fabulous gothic fashion, the heavy music and the lyrics i related to... etc.. so I was eagerly waiting for the album.

I remember a lot of fans were feeling like i did. Disappointed. There was so much hype for the album... amy lee said in countless interviews, posts that the album was gonna be great but when we got to hear it...it was so anti-climax. Nightwish's album was highly anticipated and hyped as well but at least it lived up to expectation. And probably even more.

For one, TOD was different in style of music. I dunno what Amy Lee did... totally took out anything listenable from the songs and I think for the sake of 'creativity' and 'originality'. Why does creative and original have to be so boring and mindless? Sorry, just my opinion. So the music wasn't what I liked in Evanescence so it's like different stuff altogether.

Next, the singing! Oh my god. What happened to her singing sense. She dragged out every syllable and screamed on and on and on. It's like she didn't know good taste anymore. It's not effective occasional climactic screaming just mindless... and ANNOYING! I think one reviewer said the same thing... and I thought that he/she was so right. They also said it's like now she has full control and no 2nd opinion she cant judge properly whats good and whats not. They said Ben Moody served that purpose. I think they might be right on that. I wouldn't wanna sound sexist, like as if only a guy would be good enough to judge or anything... but Amy Lee really is not good in that department. She needs some direction. But of course we know what her feelings are on that. "Ben Moody is like poison" "Ben Moody held me back" etc etc. I mean like okay.... but now we see what she does on her own... you see how she probably needed that. Again, just my opinion. She said Ben Moody's composition were just rip-offs... I dunno about this. Sometimes people just try so hard to prove themselves that it doesn't work. The "rip-offs" worked better for that matter.

The next thing was that I thought at 25.... Amy Lee would have better and more mature stuff to offer. But she appeared to be the same. or worse.

a)dressing was still the same, I thought that was a bit teenager-like, I woulda thought she's past that and have become more sophisticated.

b) lyrics were repetitive, you woulda thought she'd become more mature...instead, with the repetition in subject and sentiments she sounds whiny and self-pitying.. there goes her credibility. If before you sympathized and related to it, now you're like "grow up!"... we've past that why havent you and she's older than a lot of us too.

and c) as a person I didn't like her anymore... she wasn't sweet and innocent like she was.. and I got the impression that was exactly what she was running away from. I wonder what she's so afraid of. I think you can control your life and be happy without becoming bitchy like she did. Like "Everyone back off, I'm so great now nobody can tell me anything im not gonna listen you all are just trying to pull me down blah blah". So my respect for her as a person was totally gone. I cant listen to stuff from people I dont like anymore.

and then i was thinking all the stuff she was saying like britney and christina being pop tarts... thats just lame. i find people who complain of the skanky ones are just late bloomers. next thing you know they're becoming sexy themselves. no problem with that, just that it makes you go like hmm...after all that talk. i think the same of avril...she said the same things.

what else? well will write more if i think of anything else. hard core fans dont murder me please... i have moved on to other bands. I dont bash bands i dont like for the sake of it. I just thought i'd give my two-cents so fans who like TOD can see the other point of view. Not to influence them but just for understanding...hehe. Like I get why people like TOD... amy lee still has appeal for them and they like that type of music. I dont. So yeah, to each their own! Seeyaaa...

QFT. I know it's been said over and over again in this thread, but I still agree and still believe it to be true.

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I disagree.....
If Amy was doing such a horrible job, she wouldn't have gone anywhere
with Evanescence, and they wouldn't be around peirod.
I think she has worked her ass off, to get where she is now, and she does
actually write her own songs, as well its all real, and honest, and very
heartfelt.
Ben was AMAZING when he was still with the band, but hey shit happens,
but people can't blame Amy for everything that go's wrong.
Its a band, and things happen all the time with them.
She is the one that saved the band, when they were on tour, so she
wouldn't fail, and disappoint her fans.
I will always stick up for her, because alot of people think its just so easy
to be in the music industry, and that is so far from the truth.
She isn't the kind of person who is just all in it for the money, this is
her passion, and she actually is extreamly greatful to everyone who made
her what she is today, witch is more then I can say for other artists.
Amy/Evanescence FTFW.

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Always Believe In Your Self!!!

No one is suggesting that if you take Amy out of the band, it'd be better. We're saying that Ben + Amy = AMAZ0NG. Terry + Amy = Not so AMAZ0NG.

Again, no one is saying that she didn't work very hard and NO ONE suggested that she doesn't write her own songs or that anything she writes about is fake. It just DOESN'T come across as heartfelt as the Fallen songs. Just because you wrote a song about something real and feelings that came from a very real place, doesn't mean the song will come across that way. It's your job to make that song believable and to make that song connect with an audience. Many people have stated that Fallen just touched them deeper, touched them in ways that TOD couldn't. And frankly, the writing style is the reason for that. Her writing was very metaphorical before, so everyone could relate to it and everyone was touched in a different way.

Wrong. Amy had nearly 100% control of the material she put out for TOD. She took over the writing, the music, the look of the album... EVERYTHING. Therefore, she is ultimately responsible for the way the album is perceived... and she had a lot of help, because Fallen went multi-platinum. Several of the band members also stated that they had written for TOD and had wanted more participation on the album, but she was not open to it. That was her choice and she made the final decision... so I feel it's impossible to say that she can't be blamed for the way that album turned out. It turned out just as she wanted.

I think you're putting a lot of words in our mouths here. No one said that making an album was easy, that being in that industry was easy, or anything against her character. However, when a band puts out one album, their audience expects a certain quality of music and talent on the next album. TOD had expectations... Fallen didn't. We're explaining why we feel the way we do about the album. Flat out, TOD didn't do as well as Fallen and it got most of its sales because of the boost from Fallen. People heard that record and wanted to check out the follow-up to it, but it's not done as impressively as Fallen and has gotten very mixed reviews (also in stark contrast to Fallen).

We're not talking about Amy as a person. We don't know Amy. I personally couldn't care less if a band cares about their fans or is just doing something for the money when it comes to talking about their music; I would HOPE that if you're going to spend your life making music that you have a passion for it... no one was suggesting she doesn't have a passion for what she does. Regardless, you need to take that out of the equation. Just because she cares about what she does, doesn't necessarily mean the music will be amazing every time.

IMO, TOD was NOT any where near as strong of an album as Fallen. The majority census on the album was similar. People either didn't like it or liked it, but they didn't LOOOOOVVVVE it like they did en masse with Fallen. It's nice that you enjoy their music and you can support Evanescence... there's nothing wrong with that, but you can't doubt that the band is extremely different from what it was and their second album was very different from what Fallen was. People aren't going to simply love both albums just because they're from the same band.

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^^ IAW pretty much what Jane said. When I was thirteen, I thought Evanescence was the coolest band ever. They were unlike anything I had ever heard, and I fell completely in love with their sound, their lyrics, and Amy's voice. I felt that everything Amy sang was pure emotion, and I was very emotionally connected to the record. Also, going with what Jane said, many of the lyrics were metaphorical. I could connect with "Going Under" much more than I can connect with "Call Me When You're Sober" although both were essentially about a bad relationship.

That being said, I feel that at the point in my life that The Open Door came out, I could connect more with some of the songs on it than the songs on Fallen, such as Sweet Sacrifice or Lacrymosa. That also being said, I didn't enjoy the record anywhere near as much as I loved Fallen with every fiber of my being. I still listen to SS, Lithium, and Lacrymosa but that is about it. None of the songs grabbed me the way Fallen did, and it took alot of listening before I came to appreciate TOD...but I don't appreciate it the same way I appreciate Fallen. I think Amy fell really short in her promises for a spectacular record. In my opinion, the music is repetitive and mediocre, and her voice leaves alot to be desired. The song she sounds the best in is Like You, and that is the only song that even resembles the ethereal voice I fell in love with on Fallen. I think the records are too different to even begin to compare them, but at the same time, TOD was a major disappointment to me. There is no magic in the songs and I am more likely than not to skip them if one comes on the radio or shows up on shuffle.

And about Amy as a person...well, none of us know her. Its nice that you're willing to defend her, but you don't know she's as great as you think she is...just like some of us who don't like her actions lately don't know she isn't the person she comes across as. When reviewing an album, its best to leave the rabid defense of the artist out of it because it has nothing to do with the music they make.

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I can totally see your point Jane.

Reading all of your post, you are right about many things.
And I actually agree, that TOD wasn't as great as Fallen, but in a way
I think that was because, so many was expecting it to be alot like Fallen.
But I already new it wasn't going too turn out like that.
As well....you are right (now that I think about it) Amy did call all the
shots reguarding TOD album.
I heard as well, that the other band memebers wanted to add some of their
own idea's, but Amy turned it down.
I am not by far, saying that Amy is perfect, or anything like that, But
she has been blamed for so much, and some of it I'm sure she was at fault,
but other things I don't think she was.
I am not putting any words into anyones mouth, I am just simply expressing
my own opinion.

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Always Believe In Your Self!!!