Waterboarding - Is It Torture?

Sleepwalkers Dream · 03-16-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane

How on earth do you figure that? That's the point of fighting terrorism... to keep it as minimized as possible. What makes you think that terrorists are growing at a faster rate than the people that oppose them?

That's just such a poor mentality. Well... we're all going to die. So what's the point of trying to find a cure for cancer? What's the point of donating organs? Why don't we all just commit suicide? We're all going to die anyway. By living, we're only "delaying the inevitable."

Well, they don't seem to be losing any power, do they? They are everywhere, those people, and perhaps there will be too many for us to deal with one day.

~river~ · 03-16-2008, 10:41 PM

ok so i have been out this thread for a little while but reading this made me agnry....

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLady

It would be nice if every person on this planet could hold hands and sing songs about peace and love. But sadly, that is not the case.

and you say that but resorting to levels of torture is a better option, dont you think compassion and charity would help move us closer in the step for a little bit of world unity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLady

There are evil people in this world. There always have been. When Japan was the biggest threat to this country - we dealt with them. That included internment camps in this country for Japanese people. and it's because as SW mentioned, they were fiercely loyal to their emperor. It's easy to look back 60 years and say "oh, that was horrible what we did", but find an American that remembers Pearl Harbor and they won't be tearing up about the atomic bomb.

and what a great way to deal with them where the consquences still continue where children who aren't even educated as to why are dying from the still existent radiation posioning. what a fucken great solution that is... dont get me wrong what the japs did was awful the lack of acknowledgement is shocking the torture they used was horredous. so what should someone now come and drop an atomic bomb on america as some people condone torture. i think you will say no!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLady

I see waterboarding, and other forms of torture as a necessary evil. Until the day comes when everyone can smile and play nice, it is in the interest of world security to play the bad guy. The national and international media would like to paint Americans as "the bad guys", but for the entire history of humans on this planet, one country or empire has always played "World Police". (fuck yeah!)

it isn't just about media it is also about human morals and frankly condoning the use of torture is inhumane its distasteful and uneeded. sure id like to think we could live in a happy world and i know that this is not going to be the case anytime soon but its a lot further off when torture gets involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLady

And since I don't see any other countries stepping up to the plate, it looks like America is going to have to take the lead. And if that means doing some questionable and unethical things - well I'd hate to think of the alternatives.

im proud to say im australian and not american especially if it means you guys are going to be taking a huge step backwards. and what does stepping up mean what torture techniques are you going to employ similar techinques used by the japs who were cruel and inhumane.

when is enough, enough when will someone be mature enough to realised that eye for an eye is not the way to move on.

Sleepwalkers Dream · 03-16-2008, 10:47 PM

I just hate the fact that America thinks it has to 'save the day' all the time.
And that all they care about is so called 'National Security' and that is enough for them to hold someone down and simulate drowning.
Like I said, I don't condone it for anyone, no matter who you are, or what you have done. If you would not like it done to yourself, you can't say it's okay for another. Most people are smart enough to know waterboarding is torture, it seems America has to catch up to the rest of the world in what is ethical and what is not.

Jane · 03-16-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Mary

Most people are smart enough to know waterboarding is torture, it seems America has to catch up to the rest of the world in what is ethical and what is not.

America is well aware that waterboarding is torture...

And you do have to keep in mind that not all of us Americans are particularly fond of our current president. I like the guy, but I just think he's been a horrible president thus far. His administration has painted a bad picture of America, but that doesn't mean all Americans are exactly like that.

~river~ · 03-16-2008, 11:04 PM

i dislike bush but i support the war, but i draw a line at torture it is a fight against terrorism you can't fight terrorism if you employ tactics that cause terror

Jane · 03-16-2008, 11:18 PM

I dislike Bush, I disagree with the War in Iraq, but I do support our troops. I don't agree with torture... I just don't. I would never be able to join the military for that reason. I'd never be okay with just following orders, even if it was in the name of my country, and I wouldn't be able to kill someone else. I really think that evil begets evil, it exists because there's always going to be someone out there that's going to use it to their advantage.

Sleepwalkers Dream · 03-16-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane

America is well aware that waterboarding is torture...

And you do have to keep in mind that not all of us Americans are particularly fond of our current president. I like the guy, but I just think he's been a horrible president thus far. His administration has painted a bad picture of America, but that doesn't mean all Americans are exactly like that.

But didn't Bush veto that bill that would have made it torture? He thinks it isn't torture.
I think Bush is, by far, the worst President the US has had so far. And I don't support the war, never have, never will. I am sure that much is obvious.

~river~ · 03-16-2008, 11:27 PM

its more the troops i support but part of supporting them is supporting what they are fighting for and dying for

Jane · 03-16-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Mary

But didn't Bush veto that bill that would have made it torture? He thinks it isn't torture.

No... Bush vetoed a bill that would have made it ILLEGAL. He knows it's torture, he just must think it's necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~river~

part of supporting [the troops] is supporting what they are fighting for and dying for

Eh. I don't think so. They're doing their jobs, they can't help their orders or what they're told. And I definitely don't believe that was a war that should've been waged... besides now that we're stuck there, we have certain obligations to the Iraqis.

Sleepwalkers Dream · 03-17-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane

No... Bush vetoed a bill that would have made it ILLEGAL. He knows it's torture, he just must think it's necessary.

Eh. I don't think so. They're doing their jobs, they can't help their orders or what they're told. And I definitely don't believe that was a war that should've been waged... besides now that we're stuck there, we have certain obligations to the Iraqis.

Oh well, you know what I meant, I'm sure.
Probably a good many of the troops in Iraq never wanted to be there in the first place, I'd guess, they were just made to go because they had no choice.

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03-16-2008, 10:47 PM	Waterboarding - Is It Torture? Post #43
Sleepwalkers Dream MacGyver: MAN CANDY Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: MacGyvers House Boat Age: 29 Posts: 11,817 Points: 1,017.47 Bank: 223,483,847,409.88 Total Points: 223,483,848,427.35 Donate	I just hate the fact that America thinks it has to 'save the day' all the time. And that all they care about is so called 'National Security' and that is enough for them to hold someone down and simulate drowning. Like I said, I don't condone it for anyone, no matter who you are, or what you have done. If you would not like it done to yourself, you can't say it's okay for another. Most people are smart enough to know waterboarding is torture, it seems America has to catch up to the rest of the world in what is ethical and what is not.

03-16-2008, 11:04 PM	Waterboarding - Is It Torture? Post #45
~river~ Lips Like Morphine Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tomorrowland Age: 25 Posts: 3,905 Points: 10,012,757.78 Bank: 1,000,201.57 Total Points: 11,012,959.35 Donate	i dislike bush but i support the war, but i draw a line at torture it is a fight against terrorism you can't fight terrorism if you employ tactics that cause terror

03-16-2008, 11:18 PM	Waterboarding - Is It Torture? Post #46
Jane Old School Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Age: 25 Posts: 5,081 Points: 500.00 Bank: 0.01 Total Points: 500.01 Donate	I dislike Bush, I disagree with the War in Iraq, but I do support our troops. I don't agree with torture... I just don't. I would never be able to join the military for that reason. I'd never be okay with just following orders, even if it was in the name of my country, and I wouldn't be able to kill someone else. I really think that evil begets evil, it exists because there's always going to be someone out there that's going to use it to their advantage.

03-16-2008, 11:27 PM	Waterboarding - Is It Torture? Post #48
~river~ Lips Like Morphine Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tomorrowland Age: 25 Posts: 3,905 Points: 10,012,757.78 Bank: 1,000,201.57 Total Points: 11,012,959.35 Donate	its more the troops i support but part of supporting them is supporting what they are fighting for and dying for

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Waterboarding - Is It Torture?

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Waterboarding - Is It Torture?