what are your thoughts on poligamy, folks? - EvBoard

Brainy Smurf · 04-11-2008, 09:56 AM

With the whole FLDS raid in texas going down rignt now, poligamy has been on my mind quite a bit lately. especially since that whole situation has direct repercussions in my day to day life.

my question? how do y'all feel about poligamy in general? for, against, neutral, simply interested, etc?

my feelings: i am kind of in the middle. i do not think poligamy itself is nessacarily wrong, or heinous, and i have no real issues with groups that practice it as long as they keep it between consenting adults, although i would not practice it myself if it were truly legal and socially acceptable. generally, i agree to disagree if discussing the topic with one of them and we are at odds. imho, it's no worse than many of our elected officals who have multiple mistresses, are involved in prostitution rings, etc. for me it's more of how you go about it, thus my next comment:

a number of poligamist groups that i am aware of have had problems with inbreeding ( the marriage of first cousins and/or half brothers and sisters, generally,) which is inevitable if you practicice poligamy in a closed group, especially just within one family. it's not a good thing, and is actually starting to have genetic consequences in some cases, but is an unfortunate fact of life for these folks. but that's not what really pisses me off. The group (or subgroup) of people who have made the news by dragging innocent (women and) children into things without thier consent, and using them as a means of self gratification and to generate revenue via tax and welfare fraud, is, in my opinion WAAAY over the line .

IMHO the folks in texas deserve exactly what they are getting, and it's about friggin time. someone needs to stop the the cycle of abuse, or at least put a kink in it, now that thier activities have escalated to the point of , in my prsonal opinion, organised crime under the cover of religion. that said, please keep in mind that the particular group of folks in the texas comopound who are so prominantly featured on the news do NOT represent the typical way most of the other local poligamist groups do things, nor is it nessacarily represenative of the FLDS religeous practics except for the group that recently came under the leadership of Warren Jefffs . also keep in mind that in the state of Utah, where Warren Jeffs was tried and convicted for rape as an acccomplice for arranging underage marraiges, basically said to the rest of the local area poligimast groups in the local news right after he was sentcnced, that (and this is loosely quoted),

Quote:

Originally Posted by the local news media

Warren Jeffs got the verdict he needed, and it is a great victory for the state of Utah in it's fight against sexual predators.. that said, the state does not currently feel the need to, nor does it curently have the nessacary statuates and/or other legal tools to, prosecute a person or group based on their practice of poligamy alone. as long as you are not engaging in child abuse, rackateering, and tax fraud, we won't come after you. as least not in the forseeable future"

for some some history on how i gained my current perspective:

I live near a large FLDS poligamist community in southen Utah/Arizona. For the past 15 years or so both my wife and i have, on a regular basis, done business with, worked with and in the case of my wife, worked for, a number of said FLDS poligamists. They are an established part of my community, and it's not possible for me to NOT interact with them. the majority of my ancestors came to utah with the mormon pioneers, and were poligamists themselvs in the early days of the mormon church before Wilford woodruff, who was the mormon prophet at the time, ended the practice of poligamy by the momon church untill further notice. this caused the original members of the FLDS religion, as well as 50+ different splinter groups, to go thier seperate ways and start poligimast colonies on thier own as they did not agree with the mormon prophet ending it. (poligamy)

my wifes ancestors were scottish methodists, and also settled in much of the same areas of Idaho and Utah as the mormons. on more than one ocassion, the poligs, as we call them, have asked my wife if she was so and so's daughter, thinking she was one of them!!! while working wih them at the local hospital, she cut her hair rather short one day( it was getting very hard to take care of) and about 20 co workers who would have nothng to do with the poligs unless it was directly work related suddenly started talking to her on breaks and in general office chit chat, realising she wasnt one of them in scrubs. a few of the poligs also mistook me for one of them at a company party for a polig owned business my wife was working for, and about 5 of the women tried to hook themselves up with me needless to say, based on the way we look and talk like them, and thier geographic and religous proximity to our ancestors, my wife and I have both come to the conclusion that there is a VERY high probablility that one or both of us are distantly related ( circa 1890 or so.) to at least several of FLDS famlies we have interactd with .

these folks are decent folks, not the perverted twisted monsters the media types them out to be. (well, at least the women, children,. and and a fair portion of the guys) they are nice to talk to, fair to work for, and easy to get along with if you can overlook ther extremely conservative clothing fasions that make them stand out even in a sundy crowd. these are normal, evreyday folks with normal everyday problems, wants, needs, and dreams. and a very sick religous and commmunity leader. I kind of feel sorry for the whole lot in a way.....

*sighs* and what WERE they thinking moving to texas and holing up in a compound??? first mistake: moving to texas. EVERYTHING goes down big in texas. even the child welfare operations. second mistake: intentionally holing up in a compound branch davidian style and purposly being wierd. kind of asking for the texas rangers to come knocking on your front door, if you ask me.

one way or the other, i'm right in the middle of this. and it will have direct repercussions on my life. just curious to see what everyone else thinks.

Princess Mary · 04-11-2008, 09:01 PM

Well, the people who practice polygamy have more than one wife, so they marry more than one person. I guess the question here is: What does marriage actually mean? Is it spending your life with one person only, or is it spending you life with the ones you love, even if there are half a dozen?
I think it's wrong because I think marriage should mean more than that to be honest.(despite the fact I think marriage is nothing but a scrap of paper)

Having said that, I don't really mind because it's not my life and all, and I can't really judge. There should be a limit on the number of wives a man can have, though, and any sort of inbreeding should be prohibited.

~river~ · 04-12-2008, 02:56 AM

just my quick reply im against polygamy on some levels. most likely my upbringing and to me i just picture harems and also i dont see equal opportunities for the wives in the family as having rights or even in the wider community.
plus i think it stinks that polygamy is a male thing do women more then one husband? it isn't heard of and imagine the outrage if she did.

Princess Mary · 04-12-2008, 03:37 AM

I have heard the women are treated well, though, and apparently they get along well with the other wives. I guess that's a good thing in a way, but I don't think I'd like having to 'share' my husband with a half dozen other women...

Jane · 04-13-2008, 10:56 PM

As long as everyone involved in the relationship is an educated, consenting adult, it's not my business to disagree with it if that's what they're into. It doesn't harm anyone; I've only got a problem when others (especially children) are drawn into the lifestyle unwillingly. Such as the whole Warren Jeffs controversy and his following where all those young teenager girls were virtually raised to be wives for these older men. Polygamy, just as polyamorous relationships, are not my cup of tea, but I don't see a problem with it if everyone involved are adults and down with it.

~river~ · 04-18-2008, 09:03 PM

I just thought i would share this article on poligamy and underage girls being abused (well their rights are)

Quote:

AP - Girls in the west Texas polygamous sect enter into underage marriages without resistance because they are ruthlessly indoctrinated from birth to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation, experts for the state testified at a custody hearing for 416 youngsters.

The renegade Mormon sect's belief system "is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian," said Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist and an authority on children in cults.

But under questioning from defense lawyers who lined up in the courtroom aisles to have a turn at each witness, the state's experts acknowledged that the sect mothers are loving parents and that there were no signs of abuse among younger girls and any of the boys.

The testimony came on Day 2 of an extraordinary mass hearing over an attempt by the state of Texas to strip the parents of custody and place the children in foster homes away from the compound inhabited by members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

A witness for the parents, presented by defense lawyers as an expert on the FLDS, disputed the state's contention that a bed in the retreat's gleaming white temple was used to consummate the marriages of underage girls to much older men.

Instead, W. John Walsh testified, it is used for naps during the sect's long worship services.

"There is no sexual activity in the temple," Walsh said.

The children were seized this month in a raid on the desert compound because of evidence of physical and sexual abuse, including the forcing of underage girls into marriage and child bearing.

Texas District Judge Barbara Walther boiled it down this way: "The issue before the court is: Can I give them back?"

Attorneys for the children and the parents appeared to be trying to show in cross-examination that their children were fine and that the state was trying to tear families apart on the mere possibility that the girls might be abused when they reach puberty several years from now.

Only a few of the children are teenage girls. Roughly a third are younger than 4 and more than two dozen are teenage boys. But about 20 women or more gave birth when they were minors, some as young as 13, authorities say.

The judge controlled the hundreds of lawyers with a steelier hand Friday than she did the day before.

Under cross-examination, state child-welfare investigator Angie Voss conceded there have been no allegations of abuse against babies, prepubescent girls or any boys.

But her agency, Child Protective Services, contends that the teachings of the FLDS - to marry shortly after puberty, have as many children as possible and obey their fathers or their prophet, imprisoned leader Warren Jeffs - amount to abuse.

"This is a population of women who appear to have a problem making a decision on their own," Voss said.

In response, the FLDS women, dressed in long, pioneer-style dresses with their hair swept up in braids, groaned in chorus with their dark-suited attorneys.

Walsh disputed that young girls have no say in who they marry.

"Basically, they're into match-making," he said of the sect, adding that girls who have refused matches have not been expelled.

"I believe the girls are given a real choice. Girls have successfully said, 'No, this is not a good match for me,' and they remained in good standing," he said.

Perry testified that the girls he interviewed said they freely chose to marry young. But he said those choices were based on lessons drilled into them from birth.

"Obedience is a very important element of their belief system," he said. "Compliance is being godly; it's part of their honouring God."

Perry acknowledged that many of the adults at the ranch are loving parents and that the boys seemed emotionally healthy when he played with them. When asked whether the belief system really endangered the older boys or young children, Perry said, "I have lost sleep over that question."

Under questioning, Perry also conceded the children would suffer if placed in traditional foster care.

"If these children are kept in the custody of the state, there would have to be exceptional and innovative programmatic elements for these children and their families," he said. "The traditional foster care system would be destructive for these children."

At that, dozens of FLDS parents applauded.

Eugene Volokh, a UCLA law professor, said courts have generally held that a parent's belief system cannot, in itself, justify a child's removal. He said, for example, that a parent might teach his child that smoking marijuana is acceptable, but only when he helps the child buy pot does he cross the line.

"The general view of the legal system is until there is an imminent risk of harm or actual harm, you can't" take the children, Volokh said.

The raid was prompted by a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl with the sect. She claimed her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. Investigators have yet to identify her among the children seized.

Jeffs is in prison for being an accomplice to rape. He was convicted in Utah last year of forcing a 14-year-old into marrying an older man.

Walsh testified that the renegade Mormon sect did not promote underage marriages until imprisoned leader Warren Jeffs took over as the sect's "prophet."

"He encourages marriage," Walsh said. "In some ways, he's indifferent to their age."

source

312348 · 04-25-2008, 01:18 AM

To be honest, I've never thought Poligamy is a good thing. It just doesn't seem right to me for a man to have multiple wives. I guess I just don't think it's possible to live the best life this way. I do realize that some people are happy this way, but is it truly the best environment for their children? Perhaps it's just because I've never been in a Poligamy family, or even met one, but I think the usual 1 mom 1 dad and a few kids family is the best one, and the most appropriate. When a man has multiple wives, it seems to me as though there's not much love going on, and these women are basically his property. After all, it basically shows that he's rich and able to support more than one wife and many kids coming from all the different wives. But that doesn't seem like a family to me. Family is all about love and being there for one another through thick and thin, not just saying, "hey look, I got a big family with a ton of wives and kids just because I'm rich and I can support them all." I also believe women should have equal rights, which is another reason why I'm against poligamy (since after all, I just said it seems like the women are the men's property). Last but not least, do these chicks mind sharing a husband? I understand the fact that some are happy this way, but I seriously doubt all women are. It could lead to problems amongst the women when you've got way to many people in the house. In other words, not much family stability. More like family chaos.

All right, don't forget, this is just MY opinion on this topic. I respect what anyone else may choose to believe, because we're all individuals, and we all have our own set of morals and beliefs. I'm the type of person who believes that we can believe whatever we want, and assuming it's not dangerous, we should all respect each other. Okay, I'm done now.

**Wildangel** · 04-25-2008, 01:55 AM

To watch the women of the sect speak, it's kinda scary. They all have the same mannorisims, and speak the same. It's as if they are brainwashed. The next time they do an interview, watch them. There is nothing natural about their expressions or movements.

Princess Mary · 04-25-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

04-11-2008, 09:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
Princess Mary Miss Turunen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: With the Angels in The Silent Force Age: 24 Posts: 3,588 Points: 0.00 Bank: 187,258.89 Total Points: 187,258.89 Donate	Well, the people who practice polygamy have more than one wife, so they marry more than one person. I guess the question here is: What does marriage actually mean? Is it spending your life with one person only, or is it spending you life with the ones you love, even if there are half a dozen? I think it's wrong because I think marriage should mean more than that to be honest.(despite the fact I think marriage is nothing but a scrap of paper) Having said that, I don't really mind because it's not my life and all, and I can't really judge. There should be a limit on the number of wives a man can have, though, and any sort of inbreeding should be prohibited. __________________

04-12-2008, 02:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
~river~ I iz st00pid lyke whut? Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: at the heart of your darkest nightmares and deepest desires Age: 20 Posts: 1,617 Points: 808.40 Bank: 72,495.39 Total Points: 73,303.80 Donate	just my quick reply im against polygamy on some levels. most likely my upbringing and to me i just picture harems and also i dont see equal opportunities for the wives in the family as having rights or even in the wider community. plus i think it stinks that polygamy is a male thing do women more then one husband? it isn't heard of and imagine the outrage if she did. __________________ Life is pain, life is only pain. We're all taught to believe in happy fairytale endings, But there is only blackness; dark depressing loneliness that eats away at your soul. Sex and the City Last edited by ~river~ : 04-13-2008 at 11:21 PM.

04-12-2008, 03:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
Princess Mary Miss Turunen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: With the Angels in The Silent Force Age: 24 Posts: 3,588 Points: 0.00 Bank: 187,258.89 Total Points: 187,258.89 Donate	I have heard the women are treated well, though, and apparently they get along well with the other wives. I guess that's a good thing in a way, but I don't think I'd like having to 'share' my husband with a half dozen other women... __________________

04-13-2008, 10:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jane seimei no kyozetsu Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ohio Age: 20 Posts: 2,305 Points: 545.08 Bank: 1,650.02 Total Points: 2,195.10 Donate	As long as everyone involved in the relationship is an educated, consenting adult, it's not my business to disagree with it if that's what they're into. It doesn't harm anyone; I've only got a problem when others (especially children) are drawn into the lifestyle unwillingly. Such as the whole Warren Jeffs controversy and his following where all those young teenager girls were virtually raised to be wives for these older men. Polygamy, just as polyamorous relationships, are not my cup of tea, but I don't see a problem with it if everyone involved are adults and down with it. __________________ Jane

04-25-2008, 01:18 AM	#7 (permalink)
312348 Obsessed with Madonna Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: There, on the fence. Age: 18 Posts: 28 Points: 1,071.54 Bank: 59.10 Total Points: 1,130.65 Donate	To be honest, I've never thought Poligamy is a good thing. It just doesn't seem right to me for a man to have multiple wives. I guess I just don't think it's possible to live the best life this way. I do realize that some people are happy this way, but is it truly the best environment for their children? Perhaps it's just because I've never been in a Poligamy family, or even met one, but I think the usual 1 mom 1 dad and a few kids family is the best one, and the most appropriate. When a man has multiple wives, it seems to me as though there's not much love going on, and these women are basically his property. After all, it basically shows that he's rich and able to support more than one wife and many kids coming from all the different wives. But that doesn't seem like a family to me. Family is all about love and being there for one another through thick and thin, not just saying, "hey look, I got a big family with a ton of wives and kids just because I'm rich and I can support them all." I also believe women should have equal rights, which is another reason why I'm against poligamy (since after all, I just said it seems like the women are the men's property). Last but not least, do these chicks mind sharing a husband? I understand the fact that some are happy this way, but I seriously doubt all women are. It could lead to problems amongst the women when you've got way to many people in the house. In other words, not much family stability. More like family chaos. All right, don't forget, this is just MY opinion on this topic. I respect what anyone else may choose to believe, because we're all individuals, and we all have our own set of morals and beliefs. I'm the type of person who believes that we can believe whatever we want, and assuming it's not dangerous, we should all respect each other. Okay, I'm done now. __________________ First love yourself then you can love someone else if you can change someone else then you have saved someone else but you must first love yourself then you can love someone else if you can change someone else then you have saved someone else but you must first. Av and sig made especially for me by silverfriends07 (from EvThreads)

04-25-2008, 01:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
Wildangel Numb Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,421 Points: 1,489.56 Bank: 3,426,746.62 Total Points: 3,428,236.18 Donate	To watch the women of the sect speak, it's kinda scary. They all have the same mannorisims, and speak the same. It's as if they are brainwashed. The next time they do an interview, watch them. There is nothing natural about their expressions or movements. __________________

04-25-2008, 04:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
Princess Mary Miss Turunen Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: With the Angels in The Silent Force Age: 24 Posts: 3,588 Points: 0.00 Bank: 187,258.89 Total Points: 187,258.89 Donate	Quote: