what this forum needs...

[Trace]

I tell exactly how I feel on someones work because that person can't fix what's wrong if your *stroking their ego* - although, sometimes, if I really dislike it - I tend not to comment at all! You know: "if you can't say something nice - don't say anything at all" kinda attitude...

[Boadicea]

Originally Posted by piano-playin-girl

I tell exactly how I feel on someones work because that person can't fix what's wrong if your *stroking their ego* - although, sometimes, if I really dislike it - I tend not to comment at all! You know: "if you can't say something nice - don't say anything at all" kinda attitude...

agreed...
would someone please check out my stuff...

[ChildoftheNight]

Originally Posted by dev

you guys suck. yeah, that's right, i said it. a writer comes to this forum and all you respond with is "good job! keep up the good work!" wtf are you people, kindergarten teachers?

maybe some people come here just to be patted on the back, but personally, when i post my work in this forum, it's b/c i want actual feedback. i don't want to be told that i did a good job. i want to be told that you think what i wrote is crap and why. for those who really take writing seriously, the goal is to grow and learn with each new piece, and without criticism it is virtually impossible.

don't get me wrong, it fucking rocks that we have this forum. the more a writer reads, the better writer he becomes. it's crucial. if you want to write good poetry, you have to read a lot of poetry both good and bad. same for any other kind of writing.

i guess what i'm saying is that i wish we would all rethink the way this forum works. sure, it spares people's feelings if they write something that sucks and you tell them they did a good job, but that encourages them to keep writing the way they're writing and then they'll just post more and that's more crap that you have to read. it's a vicious cycle.

let's say that usersuzy posts the following poem in Your Stuff:

pissy crap
by suzy

oh, the agony and the angst!
my dad won't buy me a new car
and he says i have to get a job
if i want to continue shopping at GAP
and i think my dad is full of CRAP.
my boyfriend makes me sad.
i like flowers because they are pretty.
when i grow up i want to be just like
courtney love because i like sex.
the end.


i, being the curious cat that i am, would wander into the forum and find this thing and read it and think, "omifuk, i'm surprised this person even knows what line breaks are..." but there's a string of "man, you really know how to express how angry you are. good job! keep em comin!" posts, which means that if i tell suzy that there's, oh, say 12 billion things wrong with her poem, i'll look like an asshole. but i feel a duty as a writer to tell a fellow writer that if she were to actually submit this to any reputable publisher, they'd throw it in the trash can. they might read enough of it to get a good laugh before the throw it away. if she's lucky.

maybe if we labeled our pieces as something like either "workshop" or "leave me the fuck alone" we could know which writers really want some constructive criticism and which ones don't. and by marking a piece "workshop" you automatically agree to the fact that you may or may not get a negative response. the thing with criticism is, you can take it or leave it. some of it's helpful and some isn't. the writer can look at what we said we thought the strong and weak points were, edit according to what they found useful from the critique, then come back with a revised piece to share that is better from the experience.

i dunno. this is just how i think any community of artists should be. we've got quite a bit of collective talent between us and i think that we could all learn tons from each other if we initiated this kind of workshop approach. just a suggestion.

i'm labeling this "workshop." talk to me.

Hell yeah I totally and honestly agree. Dev- we need more people like you in this forum. Ive had too much of this "that was really good" or "i really like that one" shit. come on- we all know that the 500 users on this forum dont ALL write perfect. There ARE going to be people that suck. Face it.

[Larz]

Dude,
You are definetly right!
I just joined here a while ago so no one has yet replied to my posts,
but if they do I don't want them to tell me that it's good when it's not.
Sometimes it's hard to write bad comments about other peoples poetry because as you said,
everyone has different opinions.
But I would prefere people to be honest about my work- I take it very seriously and
I don't want all the replies to be the same.

Always tell the truth even when others won't agree

[MH Euphoria]

Dev, your so right...so why dont you read mine and tell me what you think. its on its own thread, "In This Rain"

[Faith-of-you]

I agree with what all of you said.
Everybody should tell what they think and not just what the others want him/her to say!! They don't have neither to think they're gonna look mean just because they told what they thought. As you said it, it's the way we're gonna artisticaly grow. We don't have to be what others want us to be, being ourselves is the only way.

[lem0njelly]

My approach is to post what I think would be appreciated. I write in so many different styles that posting from one of them allows me to see if it works. If not, then I can post some different stuff. In order to do this, constructive criticism is a definite must.

I guess, in a round-about way, I'm agreeing with the original point of this thread. Just adding an alternative reason for the need for proper comments.

[uv_fallen_angel]

I agree with this thread.

Firstly though, we need to bear one thing in mind, and that is that when it comes to art - that is, either music, poetry or drawings etc... there isn't really a good or a bad. Every view is a subjective one and dependent on the individual who is commenting. Something may be "wow... excellent - keep up the good work" to one person, but "That sucks..." to another...

Having said that though, I have seen people make pretty much exactly the same comments on every piece they have viewed.. irresepctive of its content.. so there's definitely something inconsistant going on there.

I think most people who post here though just want to show everyone what they've done and don't want much of a negative critique.. a bit like when a little kid draws a scribble, and they've put so much effort into it and they hand it to you and say... "this is my picture of you - do you like it?" and of course you reply with... "Awww.. that's sooo good.. it looks just like me!" Errm ok.. so last time you looked in the mirror, you were a scribble??! Well you know.. sometimes people have just done a piece and finished with it.. they don't necessarily want to improve.. they just enjoy what they do.. so it would be nasty to give them real critique...

I do however think that some of the comments are getting too boring and repetitive and potentially frustrating.. I posted a few things up and got positive feedback... but I don't know if it's because people actually liked them or if they felt they had to say something nice.

I like your idea about labelling the posts though. The workshop ones could almost be as though you are sending your work off to a producer or something.. and the other stuff can just be for fun, so people can laugh, cry, enjoy, whatever...

Whoa.. I wrote too much...

Sarineh x

[Nameless]

I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree:

I've seen a lot of that in the last, oh, 40 some messages. But I still see all the same garbage commentary. Nothing's different. Granted, I haven't been here for very long, but I can tell . . .

A month in half. That's what it took me to get a productive comment. I loved all of those compliments, and I'd love to get more. But I'd like to know why it's good or not. Particularly why it’s not.

I know that this isn't going to be a permanent fix, but if you want to get some honest oppinions you might want to check this out:

http://evboard.com/showthread.php?t=16894

Just in case on your way in here you didn't happen to look down.

[Alexander_08]

Originally Posted by Shauna

Good Job! Keep up the good work!

...

j/k



I agree with what you have said. If everyone keeps sugar coating what they really think, then what good is this forum? Besides the occassional ego boost of course. Your rant was very well written by the way. And no that is not sugar coated. Your opinons were logically (for the most part...) stated, and you didn't seem to hold anything back. So it might not have been a "good job!", but it most definitely was an "interesting" job.

jks ur too funny i guesss people didnt want to write alot... maybe Later