what this forum needs...

[ZER0]

you guys suck. yeah, that's right, i said it. a writer comes to this forum and all you respond with is "good job! keep up the good work!" wtf are you people, kindergarten teachers?

maybe some people come here just to be patted on the back, but personally, when i post my work in this forum, it's b/c i want actual feedback. i don't want to be told that i did a good job. i want to be told that you think what i wrote is crap and why. for those who really take writing seriously, the goal is to grow and learn with each new piece, and without criticism it is virtually impossible.

don't get me wrong, it fucking rocks that we have this forum. the more a writer reads, the better writer he becomes. it's crucial. if you want to write good poetry, you have to read a lot of poetry both good and bad. same for any other kind of writing.

i guess what i'm saying is that i wish we would all rethink the way this forum works. sure, it spares people's feelings if they write something that sucks and you tell them they did a good job, but that encourages them to keep writing the way they're writing and then they'll just post more and that's more crap that you have to read. it's a vicious cycle.

let's say that usersuzy posts the following poem in Your Stuff:

pissy crap
by suzy

oh, the agony and the angst!
my dad won't buy me a new car
and he says i have to get a job
if i want to continue shopping at GAP
and i think my dad is full of CRAP.
my boyfriend makes me sad.
i like flowers because they are pretty.
when i grow up i want to be just like
courtney love because i like sex.
the end.


i, being the curious cat that i am, would wander into the forum and find this thing and read it and think, "omifuk, i'm surprised this person even knows what line breaks are..." but there's a string of "man, you really know how to express how angry you are. good job! keep em comin!" posts, which means that if i tell suzy that there's, oh, say 12 billion things wrong with her poem, i'll look like an asshole. but i feel a duty as a writer to tell a fellow writer that if she were to actually submit this to any reputable publisher, they'd throw it in the trash can. they might read enough of it to get a good laugh before the throw it away. if she's lucky.

maybe if we labeled our pieces as something like either "workshop" or "leave me the fuck alone" we could know which writers really want some constructive criticism and which ones don't. and by marking a piece "workshop" you automatically agree to the fact that you may or may not get a negative response. the thing with criticism is, you can take it or leave it. some of it's helpful and some isn't. the writer can look at what we said we thought the strong and weak points were, edit according to what they found useful from the critique, then come back with a revised piece to share that is better from the experience.

i dunno. this is just how i think any community of artists should be. we've got quite a bit of collective talent between us and i think that we could all learn tons from each other if we initiated this kind of workshop approach. just a suggestion.

i'm labeling this "workshop." talk to me.

[Shauna]

Good Job! Keep up the good work!

...

j/k



I agree with what you have said. If everyone keeps sugar coating what they really think, then what good is this forum? Besides the occassional ego boost of course. Your rant was very well written by the way. And no that is not sugar coated. Your opinons were logically (for the most part...) stated, and you didn't seem to hold anything back. So it might not have been a "good job!", but it most definitely was an "interesting" job.

[ZER0]

Originally Posted by Shauna

Good Job! Keep up the good work!

i'll cut you. and don't think i won't get away with it.

seriously, tho, thanks. see, i guess i just got this idea of how it should work from the creative writing classes i took during my sophomore year in college. that's how it went. you write, you read it to the class, you listen to the shoot you down, you rewrite, come back, get shot down again, rewrite, come back, and then maybe you've got something you can work with. i didn't believe in revision until that class. i figured that i'd put enough thought into it before/as i wrote it, so what was the point?
i took a poem in there once. it was maybe 12 lines long. i read it, got feed back, revised. ended up doing that 3 times before i had something i was really happy with. turned into a 4 or 5 stanza poem. and i can honestly say that it's some of the best writing i've ever produced.

and i owe it all to dev's 12-week miracle diet! thanks, dev!

but don't take my word for it. try it yourself for 30 days and if you're not completely satisfied, just tell me to fuck off and return the product and i'll refund your money. but hurry now. if you call within the next 30 second and mention this ad, i won't cut you. that's a $20 value, your's free just for mention this ad!

[EcLiPsE]

I think that their are people here who actually give more then just a 'great job, keep writing' I try to speak my mind about what everone writes. If I don't like it, I'm going to tell them. But I would tell them to keep writing, because everyone has their own opinion on everything. :?

[Michelle]

YUO SUXZ0RZZ!!



Glad I could help!

[Fairy.org]

dev is right. I have noticed the

WOW AWSome posts, getting way out of hand. Personally if you cant write more than two words, and u cant give actual feedback

then lets keep it together men!

and dev...you rock me...

*yes im guilty of a couple retarded post myself. But I usually tell u guys waht i think...love ya*

But dev...Ive never been one to folow the writing rules...i just write. end of discssion.. unless u wanna personally teach me..you know..a little one-on-one action..lol...than ill continue my writing this way..and for you i might consider the edit and *proper* writing skills i own.

[ImmortaLWounDs45]

Originally Posted by LittleFairydotORG

dev is right. I have noticed the

WOW AWSome posts, getting way out of hand. Personally if you cant write more than two words, and u cant give actual feedback

then lets keep it together men!

and dev...you rock me...

*yes im guilty of a couple retarded post myself. But I usually tell u guys waht i think...love ya*

But dev...Ive never been one to folow the writing rules...i just write. end of discssion.. unless u wanna personally teach me..you know..a little one-on-one action..lol...than ill continue my writing this way..and for you i might consider the edit and *proper* writing skills i own.

same here. I'll give a reason this time why I like the poem/song LoL

[Fairy.org]

i think he is saying show critism give gerneal feedback.. i dont know..dev is good with teh words..i just agree

*dev rules me

[YoungGrasshopper]

Sounds like the problem Evanescence.com had before Wind-up took those boards down =\

*Signs the let you know what I think petition*

[Blue]

dev's right. those that frequently post in this forum should re-label their stuff so serious criticisms can be given to those with thick enough skin and those who "just write" and post here for themselves can feel free to continue to do so.

honestly, it helps would be writers more if their readers would specify the problems they had with the work, parts the reader especially liked, suggestions for the author rather than effusive praise for under-par crap. :? don't worry, everyone produces crap once in awhile.

that said, happy writing to all.
blue